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Old 07-09-2009, 08:43 AM
 
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Many people point to Matt 25:31-46 as proof of eternal punishment, especially verses 41 and 46.

In actual fact these verses are only speaking of eonian (age-abiding) punishment. This judgment described is about works, but salvation is not based on works, only grace. This judgment has nothing to do with our ultimate salvation.

Watch this 4 part video series for an in-depth study:


YouTube - Mat 25:46 Eternal Punishment? pt. 1

Enjoy!
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Old 07-09-2009, 09:02 AM
 
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Interesting but I only got to the second video. He is hard to follow not to mention he is all over the place. Do you have someone else?
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Old 07-09-2009, 10:04 AM
 
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Maybe watch the whole 4 parts first Fundy.
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Old 07-09-2009, 10:55 AM
 
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Here is the gist of the video.

Matt 25:31-46 is one of God's many judgments. There is debate whether this is the final judgment, an intermidiary judgment, or an ongoing judgment.

Most people would look at Matt 25:46 or Matt 25:41 and rip it out of context as proof that there is an eternal hell for some.

But we must look at the context. The fact is, this isn't a judgment that is describing some people going to a place of eternal fire, or some people going to float around on a cloud in heaven. Its not talking about that at all.

First we must understand the word "eternal" in those verses is greek aionios, which means:
- age-lasting
- age-during
- age-abiding
- eonian
- pertaining to the ages

It is translated those ways and not as "eternal" in a number of bibles.

YLT:
Matt 25:41 Then shall he say also to those on the left hand, Go ye from me, the cursed, to the fire, the age-during, that hath been prepared for the Devil and his messengers

Matt 25:46 And these shall go away to punishment age-during, but the righteous to life age-during.'


So what is the context of Matt 25? Jesus is giving a number of parables: the parable of the ten virgins, the parable of the talents, and finally the parable of the sheep and the goats.

These are all talking about the Kingdom, and some getting into the Kingdom reign as rulers, and others thrust out to be subjects of the Kingdom.

Lets look at the parable of the talents briefly. It is talking about doing something with what you have been given. God has given us each talents that we are to use for good. Does this mean our own good works get us into the Kingdom? No, because it is God who works in each of us to produce a good work. We can do nothing of ourself. So, some will get into the Kingdom because they have used their talents wisely (because God has worked through them). The others are thrust out:

Matt 24:30 And throw that worthless servant outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.'

See also Matt 8:12.

Ok onto Matt 24:31-46 the sheep and the goats.

Again this is a judgment of works. It talks about feed the hungry, clothing the poor, visiting the sick. etc. These are good things to do. They are good works. Does doing any of these thing save us? NO. We are saved by grace through faith.

Those who didn't do the good works are cast out, into the "eonian fire". This is the same casting out as in Matt 24:30 and Matt 8:12. These are the goats. They are by nature a goat.

Those who did the good works are the sheep. They are by nature a sheep - they did the good works naturally (because God was working through them).

But the bible says no one is righteous. So how can some of us be sheep by nature? We were converted from being a goat. It was God's work.

The sheep inherit the reign in the Kingdom, the eonian life. John 17:3 tells us this eonian life is to know God. Those who don't know God gnash their teeth and are subjected to the Kingdom. Those who do know God have inherited the Kingdom and rule and reign with Christ. Also those who know God know what it is to LOVE.

This is what all 3 of these parables in Matt 25 are talking about. Yes some are thrust out of the Kingdom, but this is not for eternity. God will eventually draw them in as well, in fact this is the purpose of the sheep (the elect).
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Old 07-09-2009, 11:13 AM
 
Location: East Coast
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One thing we can and should agree on and that is age abiding punishment and not eternal punishment is the crrect translation.

Not for the purpose to justify UR but because simply that is the correct translation.
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Old 07-09-2009, 11:27 AM
 
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Wait a minute. By no means am I a scholar on end times theology but correct me if I am wrong the sheep aren't today's Christians they are the post tribulation believers who are saved by hearing the 144,000?

Quote:
Ok onto Matt 24:31-46 the sheep and the goats.

Again this is a judgment of works. It talks about feed the hungry, clothing the poor, visiting the sick. etc. These are good things to do. They are good works. Does doing any of these thing save us? NO. We are saved by grace through faith.
The people being taken in and taken care of is not the regular Joe but the 144,000 because (if that's the case then I will be on the left side-one of the goats because I have never clothed someone nor have I gone to prison to visit someone? and there are atheists that have probably done more than me in that department?)

35'For I was hungry, and you gave Me something to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me something to drink; (B)I was a stranger, and you invited Me in;
36naked, and you clothed Me; I was sick, and you visited Me; I was in prison, and you came to Me.'
37"Then the righteous will answer Him, 'Lord, when did we see You hungry, and feed You, or thirsty, and give You something to drink?
38'And when did we see You a stranger, and invite You in, or naked, and clothe You?
39'When did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?'
40"The King will answer and say to them, 'Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it to one of these brothers of Mine, even the least of them, you did it to Me.'


The brothers are Jews, the 144,000; 12,000 from each tribe



Last edited by Fundamentalist; 07-09-2009 at 12:10 PM..
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Old 07-09-2009, 11:44 AM
 
Location: God's Country
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Matt: 25:31-46 is proof of eternal punishment and separation from God. The sheep are the saved, the goats are the unbelievers. It's not about works, but whether or not we have accepted the gift of salvation from Jesus. Ezekiel 34:17-24 also refers to separation of the saved and the lost.
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Old 07-09-2009, 11:47 AM
 
Location: Germany
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Quote:
The sheep are the saved, the goats are the unbelievers. It's not about works, but whether or not we have accepted the gift of salvation from Jesus.
I see it different, the context implies the judgment there is solely based on works, this is how I understand it:

Matthew 25:46
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Old 07-09-2009, 11:52 AM
 
Location: East Coast
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Ezekiel 34 :17-24

Sorry ILNC not in your wildest imagination can that be referring to seperation from God , especially because of rejecting a free gift.
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Old 07-09-2009, 11:54 AM
 
Location: God's Country
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
Ezekiel 34 :17-24

Sorry ILNC not in your wildest imagination can that be referring to seperation from God , especially because of rejecting a free gift.
It's not in my imagination, it's in the Bible, sorry you don't understand it, try asking the Holy Spirit to explain it to you.
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