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Old 07-10-2009, 03:35 PM
 
6,209 posts, read 3,990,901 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I LOVE NORTH CAROLINA View Post
God loves us enough to respect the choice of those who reject Him. It breaks His heart, but He is not going to force anyone to believe and accept Jesus. I understand you don't want to believe some people are going to hell forever, but it IS what the Bible teaches.
And it seems you don't want to believe that God will save all people, it is what the bible teaches.

Look at your first statement. God "loves" us enough to respect the choice to reject Him?!?

Effectively God says, ok, you can go into torture for eternity, I won't stop you, I love you that much, even though it breaks my heart. WHAT? What kind of love is that to let His own creation be tortured in the very "hell" He created, knowing that they would choose that way from the beginning?

You are severely underestimating the conversion power of God's love. God declares:

EVERY knee will bow.
EVERY tongue will confess that He is Lord.
EVERY person will SWEAR ALLEGIANCE - prayerful, willing, loyal acceptance of their LORD and SAVIOR!
Everyone will be glad and sing praises in His name!

Scripture affirms all this, yet you think some will still reject Him and God will stand by doing nothing?
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Old 07-10-2009, 03:41 PM
 
Location: Hot-Houston Texas
20,055 posts, read 21,104,390 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by legoman View Post
And it seems you don't want to believe that God will save all people, it is what the bible teaches.

Look at your first statement. God "loves" us enough to respect the choice to reject Him?!?

Effectively God says, ok, you can go into torture for eternity, I won't stop you, I love you that much, even though it breaks my heart. WHAT? What kind of love is that to let His own creation be tortured in the very "hell" He created, knowing that they would choose that way from the beginning?

You are severely underestimating the conversion power of God's love. God declares:

EVERY knee will bow.
EVERY tongue will confess that He is Lord.
EVERY person will SWEAR ALLEGIANCE - prayerful, willing, loyal acceptance of their LORD and SAVIOR!
Everyone will be glad and sing praises in His name!

Scripture affirms all this, yet you think some will still reject Him and God will stand by doing nothing?
No it is NOT what the Bible teaches. God does not want robots, that's why He gave Adam and Eve the choice and they made a bad one. God will stand on His Word which tells us that yes those who reject Him will spend eternity in hell. God would be a lair to do otherwise. Yes every knee will bow and every tongue will confess He is Lord someday, but that does not mean they will be spending eternity with Him. This why is it important to come to Jesus NOW while there is still time, I wish you could understand that.
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Old 07-10-2009, 03:48 PM
 
Location: South Carolina
3,587 posts, read 3,709,135 times
Reputation: 551
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
What don't you get about If i be lifted up i will draw all men unto me and every knee shall bow and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord ?.

Using your own logic where does it say you can't ?.
I get what the scripture is saying and it is not saying what I am asking!! I'm done with this dead end conversation.

The Greek word here rendered unto is pros, signifying toward

This, then, the Father's method of drawing, is a proper sample of the drawing which our Lord Jesus will do when he shall, as promised, draw all men unto him. (The word draw in both cases is from the same Greek word helkuo. John6:44 John 6:44 and 12:32.) Using the Father's work as an illustration of Christ's work, we know that there will be no coercion, no compulsion; that it will be by the cords of the truth that all will be drawn; and that those who would resist the spirit of the truth, when the Lord and all his gracious provisions are fully known, will be privileged to do so, none being drawn against their wills.

Every knee shall bow, ok what does that have to do with Hell, does it say that every knee shall bow in hell and then in heaven, every tongue shall confess, that has nothing to do with those in heaven from hell.
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Old 07-10-2009, 03:51 PM
 
6,209 posts, read 3,990,901 times
Reputation: 649
Quote:
Originally Posted by I LOVE NORTH CAROLINA View Post
No it is NOT what the Bible teaches. God does not want robots, that's why He gave Adam and Eve the choice and they made a bad one. God will stand on His Word which tells us that yes those who reject Him will spend eternity in hell. God would be a lair to do otherwise. Yes every knee will bow and every tongue will confess He is Lord someday, but that does not mean they will be spending eternity with Him. This why is it important to come to Jesus NOW while there is still time, I wish you could understand that.
ILNC, I appreciate your answer, and your heart seems to be in the right place. That is why I wish you could understand the UR point of view.

But look at your answer. You contradict yourself. You say God does not want robots. Then why do ALL bow and confess He is Lord?!??!? Does God force them to bow and confess a phony confession? Wouldn't that be forcing them against their will?

If God really didn't want robots, according to your theology only a few would be bowing and confessing, the ones who truly believe and love the Lord. Yet scripture tells us ALL bow and confess, and even goes so far as to say ALL swear allegiance and gladly praise Him!

Why is someone swearing allegiance and happily praising God, if he knows he will be spending eternity in hell?

Think about this.
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Old 07-10-2009, 03:59 PM
 
7,374 posts, read 4,474,809 times
Reputation: 872
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Shawn_2828 View Post
I get what the scripture is saying and it is not saying what I am asking!! I'm done with this dead end conversation.

The Greek word here rendered unto is pros, signifying toward

Isaiah 45:22-23
"This, then, the Father's method of drawing, is a proper sample of the drawing which our Lord Jesus will do when he shall, as promised, draw all men unto him. (The word draw in both cases is from the same Greek word helkuo. John6:44 John 6:44 and 12:32.) Using the Father's work as an illustration of Christ's work, we know that there will be no coercion, no compulsion; that it will be by the cords of the truth that all will be drawn; and that those who would resist the spirit of the truth, when the Lord and all his gracious provisions are fully known, will be privileged to do so, none being drawn against their wills. "

Every knee shall bow, ok what does that have to do with Hell, does it say that every knee shall bow in hell and then in heaven, every tongue shall confess, that has nothing to do with those in heaven from hell.



"Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else. I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear (Hebrew Shaba : to be in a covenant by oath, to swear fealty)."

All the ends of the earth, every nation and every person shall bow and make an oath unto God in the fullness of time, and they will look unto him and be saved. That is the word of God, and it will not return to him.
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Old 07-10-2009, 04:04 PM
 
Location: South Carolina
3,587 posts, read 3,709,135 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironmaw1776 View Post
"Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else. I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear(to be in a covenant by oath)."

All the ends of the earth, every nation and every person shall bow and make an oath unto God in the fullness of time, and they will look unto him and be saved. That is the word of God, and it will not return to him.
what does the scripture say?

Look unto me, what about the one that will not look unto him. It does not say that all are looking unto God. It says look unto me not all are looking unto God, or are they? It says look unto me and be saved, it does not say that all are looking unto God and all are being saved. When you get to the end, every knee, meaning every knee, and every tongue, meaning every tongue, but does it say that all are looking unto God, all the ends of the earth, is that saying that all are being saved?

I am not making anything up only what is there?

Quote:
That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear
Of course every knee shall bow, and every tongue shall confess because this is what it says. It does not say that he is bringing anyone from hell to heaven after being punished, this is saying knees bowing and every tongue shall swear.

I have a need to say this, I am not questioning what God will do, I am only questioning what I don't see in scripture. So, please don't think that I am attacking you, I am merely reading scripture.
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Old 07-10-2009, 04:13 PM
 
7,374 posts, read 4,474,809 times
Reputation: 872
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Shawn_2828 View Post
what does the scripture say?

Look unto me, what about the one that will not look unto him. It doesn't not say that all are looking unto God. It says look unto me not all are looking unto God, or are they?

I am not making anything up only what is there?



Of course every knee shall bow, and every tongue shall confess because this is what it says. It does not say that he is bring anyone from hell to heaven after being punished.
Hell is a myth ... Of course the bible doesn't talk about people going from hell to heaven. Your stuck on a fallacious concept and expecting us to prove something that in truth has nothing to do with what scripture says about death and the so called "afterlife" to begin with. We never said people in hell go to heaven. We don't believe in your concept of hell. Your asking us to scripturally prove a strawman argument that we never made. All men go to the grave and all men will be resurrected and all mens works will be tried by fire, some will suffer loss and some will not be hurt but all will be saved. Stop trying to fit UR in the box of your inferred concepts and indoctrination.

As far as look to men, and bow and make an oath not being the same thing, your just grasping at straws the context is specific and obvious.

If they are swearing an oath of fealty to God, then they are believing on him and serving him. You think God will then burn them forever? You think he just wants to force them to say uncle and then go ahead and torture them for ever anyway? What kind of a infantile petty tyrant bully do you think God to be anyway?
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Old 07-10-2009, 04:15 PM
 
Location: South Carolina
3,587 posts, read 3,709,135 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironmaw1776 View Post
Hell is a myth ... Of course the bible doesn't talk about people going from hell to heaven. Your stuck on a fallacious concept and expecting us to prove something that in truth has nothing to do with what scripture says about death and the so called "afterlife" to begin with. We never said people in hell go to heaven. We don't believe in your concept of hell. Your asking us to scripturally prove a strawman argument that we never made. All men God to the grave and all men will be resurrected and all mens works will be tried by fire, some will suffer loss and some will not be hurt but all will be saved. Stop trying to fit UR in the box of your inferred concepts and indoctrination.

As far as look to me an bow a make an oath not being the same thing, your just grasping at straws the context is specific and obvious.
Yes, you are right I am grasping at the scriptures!!! Hell is real, like it or not. I am asking you and others to provide scripture that proves your point, but none!!! Later, and enjoy the rest of your day.

Actually there are some who said that they believe hell is only temporary, an age of punishment. But they still can't provide the scripture that says that they are being punished for an age, then in heaven.
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Old 07-10-2009, 04:19 PM
 
7,374 posts, read 4,474,809 times
Reputation: 872
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Shawn_2828 View Post
what does the scripture say?

Look unto me, what about the one that will not look unto him. It does not say that all are looking unto God. It says look unto me not all are looking unto God, or are they? It says look unto me and be saved, it does not say that all are looking unto God and all are being saved. When you get to the end, every knee, meaning every knee, and every tongue, meaning every tongue, but does it say that all are looking unto God, all the ends of the earth, is that saying that all are being saved?

I am not making anything up only what is there?



Of course every knee shall bow, and every tongue shall confess because this is what it says. It does not say that he is bringing anyone from hell to heaven after being punished, this is saying knees bowing and every tongue shall swear.

I have a need to say this, I am not questioning what God will do, I am only questioning what I don't see in scripture. So, please don't think that I am attacking you, I am merely reading scripture.
If they are swearing an oath of fealty to God, then they are believing on him and serving him. You think God will then turn around and go ahead and burn them forever? You think he just wants to force them to say uncle and then go ahead and torture them for ever anyway? What kind of a infantile petty tyrant bully do you think God to be?
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Old 07-10-2009, 04:19 PM
 
Location: South Carolina
3,587 posts, read 3,709,135 times
Reputation: 551
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironmaw1776 View Post
If they are swearing an oath of fealty to God, then they are believing on him and serving him. You think God will then burn them forever? You think he just wants to force them to say uncle and then go ahead and torture them for ever anyway? What kind of a infantile petty tyrant bully do you think God to be anyway?
It doesn't matter what I think, only what scriptures says!!!!
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