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Old 07-10-2009, 02:45 PM
 
Location: South Carolina
3,580 posts, read 6,280,088 times
Reputation: 597

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Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
Well tell me what is left at the end, don't you christians believe all there's left at the end is heaven and hell ?

If all have been released after serving there time in hades,gehenna and tartarus where else is there to go , or do you think hades , gehenna and tartarus are eternal again now ? make your mind up.
NO, in the end there is life with Christ and some who will be punished in hell. Simple and what the scriptures say. Nothing added, nothing taken away.

Quote:
don't you christians
This is such an ignorant statment. Do you really know what my religion is, I only showed you scripture and asked for you to provide me your scripture to show what you believe?

Jesus said that some would perish, but did Jesus say that those who would perish, would then be in heaven?

I am not attacking what you believe, I am only asking for you to show me scripture on what you believe!
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Old 07-10-2009, 02:48 PM
 
Location: New England
37,336 posts, read 28,063,264 times
Reputation: 2741
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Shawn_2828 View Post
NO, in the end there is life with Christ and some who want be punished in hell. Simple and what the scriptures say. Nothing added, nothing taken away.
I know we are going around in circles but where does it say some wanted to be punished in hell ?

You have admitted hell is not eternal , so why are you saying this.

You said you read from the same bible as me and my bible does not used the word hell it uses hades and gehenna , which you know are not eternal , so where are you getting eternal hell from ?
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Old 07-10-2009, 02:57 PM
 
Location: South Carolina
3,580 posts, read 6,280,088 times
Reputation: 597
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
I know we are going around in circles but where does it say some wanted to be punished in hell ?

You have admitted hell is not eternal , so why are you saying this.

You said you read from the same bible as me and my bible does not used the word hell it uses hades and gehenna , which you know are not eternal , so where are you getting eternal hell from ?
Actually that is a typo and I corrected it. It says some will be punished in Hell.

I never said that Hell was not eternal. I said I do not focus my time on if hell is eternal or not. When I read in scripture that some will be devoured and will perish, there is nothing that says that they will we in heaven. If they are devoured and perished, what does that mean. Devour means destroyed, and perish mean no more.

I never said that I was reading the same bible as you, I was saying that I was willing to use your bible when asking questions, but you never answered my question.

My question was if I use your bible that uses age, eon and the such. Is there a scripture that says that God will punish, devour, perish, those for an age, and then bring them into heaven?

If you use the NKJV, hebrew and the greek bible, then we use the same!
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Old 07-10-2009, 02:59 PM
 
6,657 posts, read 8,082,227 times
Reputation: 750
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Shawn_2828 View Post
LOL, you refuse to answer my questions?

1 Timothy 2:4 God wills that all mankind be saved and come to the knowledge of truth.

What is this saying, it says that it is God's will that all be saved and to come to the knowledge of truth.

Does it say that God will send someone into hell and then into heaven. God wants all to be saved, but does it say in scripture that all will be saved from hell who were there?
The problem with your question is that the bible does not actually say God will send anyone to hell. It says people will go to sheol (the grave), hades (the grave), or gehenna (a literal valley garbage dump used as a metaphor for judgment).

It also says people will go to the lake of fire.

So no you will not find a verse that says someone will go to "hell" and then goes to "heaven" because "hell" is not in the scriptures.

What you will find is some people go into "fire" and then are "saved by the fire".

What you will also find are 100s of scriptures and examples that say the following:
- God will save all,
- God will reconcile all,
- God will unify all things,
- God will forgive all,
- God will bless all,
- God will have mercy on all,
- all will worship God,
- all will bow and confess to God,
- all will swear allegiance to God,
- all will revere God,
- and all will be glad to see God.



These are simple "sound byte" answers and questions we are discussing here, which may not answer your question to your satisfaction. To really answer your question and understand it would requires pages of study on every verse using the word sheol/hades/gehenna. There are articles on this if you want to study it.

Please be open to the possibility. Don't you think it is important to know for sure if God will eternally torment Billions or not? This can be determined through honest study of the scriptures.
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Old 07-10-2009, 03:03 PM
 
Location: New England
37,336 posts, read 28,063,264 times
Reputation: 2741
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Shawn_2828 View Post
Actually that is a typo and I corrected it. It says some will be punished in Hell.

I never said that Hell was not eternal. I said I do not focus my time on if hell is eternal or not. When I read in scripture that some will be devoured and will perish, there is nothing that says that they will we in heaven. If they are devoured and perished, what does that mean. Devour means destroyed, and perish mean no more.

I never said that I was reading the same bible as you, I was saying that I was willing to use your bible when asking questions, but you never answered my question.

My question was if I use your bible that uses age, eon and the such. Is there a scripture that says that God will punish, devour, perish, those for an age, and then bring them into heaven?
Well what about acts 2 verse 31

31He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.

You know that hell here is really translated grave and this you agreed to.
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Old 07-10-2009, 03:05 PM
 
Location: South Carolina
3,580 posts, read 6,280,088 times
Reputation: 597
Quote:
Originally Posted by legoman View Post
The problem with your question is that the bible does not actually say God will send anyone to hell. It says people will go to sheol (the grave), hades (the grave), or gehenna (a literal valley garbage dump used as a metaphor for judgment).

It also says people will go to the lake of fire.

So no you will not find a verse that says someone will go to "hell" and then goes to "heaven" because "hell" is not in the scriptures.

What you will find is some people go into "fire" and then are "saved by the fire".

What you will also find are 100s of scriptures and examples that say the following:
- God will save all,
- God will reconcile all,
- God will unify all things,
- God will forgive all,
- God will bless all,
- God will have mercy on all,
- all will worship God,
- all will bow and confess to God,
- all will swear allegiance to God,
- all will revere God,
- and all will be glad to see God.



These are simple "sound byte" answers and questions we are discussing here, which may not answer your question to your satisfaction. To really answer your question and understand it would requires pages of study on every verse using the word sheol/hades/gehenna. There are articles on this if you want to study it.

Please be open to the possibility. Don't you think it is important to know for sure if God will eternally torment Billions or not? This can be determined through honest study of the scriptures.
Quote:
It also says people will go to the lake of fire.
I know it does, but it doesn't say that they will be brought from hell.
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Old 07-10-2009, 03:11 PM
 
Location: South Carolina
3,580 posts, read 6,280,088 times
Reputation: 597
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
Well what about acts 2 verse 31

31He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.

You know that hell here is really translated grave and this you agreed to.
This is not answering my question. He is saying his soul not our soul. Where does it say in that scripture that our soul will be punished in hell and then being us to heaven.

Who are they talking about in the scripture, and does it have anything to do with the people who are being punished in hell?
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Old 07-10-2009, 03:24 PM
 
Location: New England
37,336 posts, read 28,063,264 times
Reputation: 2741
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Shawn_2828 View Post
This is not answering my question. He is saying his soul not our soul. Where does it say in that scripture that our soul will be punished in hell and then being us to heaven.

Who are they talking about in the scripture, and does it have anything to do with the people who are being punished in hell?
What don't you get about If i be lifted up i will draw all men unto me and every knee shall bow and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord ?.

Using your own logic where does it say you can't ?.
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Old 07-10-2009, 03:24 PM
 
6,657 posts, read 8,082,227 times
Reputation: 750
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Shawn_2828 View Post
Quote:
It also says people will go to the lake of fire.
I know it does, but it doesn't say that they will be brought from hell.

What do you mean "brought from hell"? Part of the problem here is the term "hell" is so ambiguous, people use it to mean all sorts of things, when in fact it is not even in the original scriptures.

Scripture says people will go into hades.
Scripture says people are redeemed from hades.
Scripture says some people will go into the lake of fire.
Scripture says God desires to save all and all people will be reconciled to God.
Scripture says death is destroyed.

What should we conclude?
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Old 07-10-2009, 03:30 PM
 
Location: God's Country
22,999 posts, read 34,274,280 times
Reputation: 31628
Quote:
Originally Posted by spm62 View Post
To say that God longs,desires,or wishes for something and then doesn`t get it diminishes God. It diminishes who he is and puts him on the level of a human being. God doesn not hope or wish for anything. He DOES. He has declared the beginning from the end. EVERYTHING has a purpose...HIS PURPOSE. He declares things that have yet to happen as though they have.
That is a big part of the problem with ET`ers. They cannot wrap their mind around the fact that God DOES what he wants. He is not a man. You are trying to give God human attributes and understand him as someone with human intellect, wants,needs, and desires. He does not operate as you and I do. We are restricted,refrained,limited,fallable,and unwise. He is ALL KNOWING. There is nothing that limits him. We believe our limited,flawed,tainted human view of justice is the same justice that God has. It is not. We shackle God with our limited ability to love.... With our our limited capacity to show mercy. GOD IS NOT A MAN! Stop trying to give him human intellect and reasoning. You cannot understand his ways because of your limited ability as a human being. Hence when God says ALL will be saved, because of our limited capacity to show mercy and our natural human desire for revenge and justice, we place those attributes on God. Because of our natural human desire to want to belong and feel special we say..those that don`t do as I do or behave the way I do are outsiders. God doesn`t love them the way he loves me,etc. But God doesn`t love the way you and I love someone. We are unable to love that way. What we have is an extremely limited attribute or replica of God. We have the capacity to think and reason but it is like comparing a grain of sand on a beach to all of the sand on a million beaches. It`s like a bird locked in a cage. He can fly around the cage and experience a little of what it feels like to fly. But his experience of flight is nothing compared to an eagle who can soar above the heavens and fly anywhere he wants. We have limited knowledge and live and think in a box because that is all we are capable of. Stop trying to limit God and putting your own restricted reasoning on him.
God said ALL of his good pleasure he WILL do. If it pleasures him to open the eyes of every human being and bring them to repentance,guess what? He will DO that! Just trust that he will do all that he desires! Since we as human beings can`t do all that we desire, we believe God won`t do all that he wills or desires.God will do what he wants, when he wants, and how he wants. Unlike fallable man.

Psalms 100:5 NKJV) For the LORD is good; His mercy is everlasting, And His truth endures to all generations

"…it is God [not man] which works in you BOTH TO WILL [God causes us ‘to will’] and TO DO [God causes us ‘to do’] of His good pleasure" to bring about His intentions (Phil. 2:13).



"In Whom [GOD] also we have obtained [‘obtained’ not ‘earned’] an inheritance, being PREDESTINATED [our ‘destiny’ was ‘pre’ arranged by God, not us] according to the PURPOSE OF HIM [not the free will, OF US!] Who WORKS ALL THINGS [EVERYthing] AFTER THE COUNSEL OF HIS OWN WILL [not OUR OWN WILL]" (Eph. 1:11).



"For who makes you to differ from another? And what have you that you did not RECEIVE [Gk: ‘OBTAIN’]? [from God] now if you did receive it [from God], why do you glory [Gk: ‘boast’], AS IF YOU HAD NOT RECEIVED IT [from God, but rather of your own ‘free’ will]?" (I Cor. 4:7).
God loves us enough to respect the choice of those who reject Him. It breaks His heart, but He is not going to force anyone to believe and accept Jesus. I understand you don't want to believe some people are going to hell forever, but it IS what the Bible teaches.
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