U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 07-09-2009, 12:12 PM
 
6,220 posts, read 6,283,213 times
Reputation: 677

Advertisements

Some people on this forum believe it. While it sounds like a "nice" idea, the bible doesn't teach it.

Rev 14:9 If anyone worships the beast and his image and receives his mark on the forehead or on the hand, 10he, too, will drink of the wine of God's fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath. He will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb.

Psalm 139:8 If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there.


Please correct me (with scripture) if I am wrong.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 07-09-2009, 04:29 PM
 
7,374 posts, read 7,073,143 times
Reputation: 891
Quote:
Originally Posted by legoman View Post
Some people on this forum believe it. While it sounds like a "nice" idea, the bible doesn't teach it.

Rev 14:9 If anyone worships the beast and his image and receives his mark on the forehead or on the hand, 10he, too, will drink of the wine of God's fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath. He will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb.

Psalm 139:8 If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there.


Please correct me (with scripture) if I am wrong.
The fact is the whole mess about hell and eternal torture is so convoluted and based on inference that like a massive house of cards, once you start pulling on a few basic fundamental principles of the whole fallacy it comes crashing down around our ears. You take away the power of their arguments when you discover the true meaning for the words translated into hell and the word aion and its adjectives and all the sudden all the erroneous inference and speculation and bad exegesis of the fallacious doctrine becomes so evident that those who cling to the belief needs must delude themselves and simply deny the facts. Not only does universal reconciliation liberate us personally from the tyrannical spiritual extortion of organized religion but it also reconciles the otherwise myriad of seeming scriptural contradictions.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-09-2009, 05:19 PM
 
Location: South Carolina
3,586 posts, read 5,254,975 times
Reputation: 576
Quote:
Originally Posted by legoman View Post
Some people on this forum believe it. While it sounds like a "nice" idea, the bible doesn't teach it.

Rev 14:9 If anyone worships the beast and his image and receives his mark on the forehead or on the hand, 10he, too, will drink of the wine of God's fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath. He will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb.

Psalm 139:8 If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there.


Please correct me (with scripture) if I am wrong.
Quote:
Rev 14:9 If anyone worships the beast and his image and receives his mark on the forehead or on the hand, 10he, too, will drink of the wine of God's fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath. He will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb.
Well, if you would have finished the rest of the scripture you would have found your answer.

REv. 14:11

And the smoke of their torment rises for ever and ever. There is no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and his image, or for anyone who receives the mark of his name."
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-09-2009, 05:24 PM
 
27 posts, read 26,743 times
Reputation: 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironmaw1776 View Post
The fact is the whole mess about hell and eternal torture is so convoluted and based on inference that like a massive house of cards, once you start pulling on a few basic fundamental principles of the whole fallacy it comes crashing down around our ears. You take away the power of their arguments when you discover the true meaning for the words translated into hell and the word aion and its adjectives and all the sudden all the erroneous inference and speculation and bad exegesis of the fallacious doctrine becomes so evident that those who cling to the belief needs must delude themselves and simply deny the facts. Not only does universal reconciliation liberate us personally from the tyrannical spiritual extortion of organized religion but it also reconciles the otherwise myriad of seeming scriptural contradictions.
AMEN !!!
Like I have stated before, it is crazy how the total mistranslation of a few words can so utterly distort the evangel of Christ.
Here is the evangel (good news):

ALL means ALL; aion means an age of finite time; aionios means pertaining to the age and neither means eternal or the world; God is truly Sovereign over ALL THINGS even man's will; hades and sheoul mean "the unseen" or "the grave". The Lake of Fire is corrective and purifying but NOT eternal.
That is Great News !!!

In Christ.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-09-2009, 05:34 PM
 
27 posts, read 26,743 times
Reputation: 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Shawn_2828 View Post


Well, if you would have finished the rest of the scripture you would have found your answer.

REv. 14:11

And the smoke of their torment rises for ever and ever. There is no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and his image, or for anyone who receives the mark of his name."
I have found that to be an Improper translation. The Greek reads as:

11 And the fumes of their torment are ascending for the eons of the eons. And they are having no rest day and night, those worshiping the wild beast and its image, and if anyone is getting the emblem of its name. (YLT)

This only means more than one eon (age).
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-09-2009, 05:35 PM
 
5,925 posts, read 5,583,410 times
Reputation: 639
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Shawn_2828 View Post

Well, if you would have finished the rest of the scripture you would have found your answer.

REv. 14:11

And the smoke of their torment rises for ever and ever. There is no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and his image, or for anyone who receives the mark of his name."


Yes,

(Revelation 14:11) And, the smoke of their torment, unto ages of ages, ascendeth; And they have no rest day or night, who do homage unto the beast and his image, or if anyone receiveth the mark of his name.

There is judgment, but literally forever?, not as I read further.

Last edited by Phazelwood; 07-09-2009 at 05:44 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-09-2009, 05:38 PM
 
7,374 posts, read 7,073,143 times
Reputation: 891
Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Shawn_2828 View Post


Well, if you would have finished the rest of the scripture you would have found your answer.

REv. 14:11

And the smoke of their torment rises for ever and ever. There is no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and his image, or for anyone who receives the mark of his name."
Again for a Greek student you make a common error, Ever and ever is needlessly redundant not to mention a bad translation all together. Aion does not mean ever or forever or anything like that.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-09-2009, 05:53 PM
 
Location: South Carolina
3,586 posts, read 5,254,975 times
Reputation: 576
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironmaw1776 View Post
Again for a Greek student you make a common error, Ever and ever is needlessly redundant not to mention a bad translation all together. Aion does not mean ever or forever or anything like that.
As a Greek student He didn't ask me to translate this scripture in greek, nor did he translate in greek. It looks like he is using the KJV version of the bible and that is not the greek bible, which will have the same scripture that I posted.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-09-2009, 06:12 PM
 
17,968 posts, read 12,104,506 times
Reputation: 988
Hi Miss Shawn,

If "for ever" is eternity, then how can one get beyond that eternity for there to be another eternity, i.e. "and ever"?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-09-2009, 06:19 PM
 
Location: South Carolina
3,586 posts, read 5,254,975 times
Reputation: 576
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius View Post
Hi Miss Shawn,

If "for ever" is eternity, then how can one get beyond that eternity for there to be another eternity, i.e. "and ever"?
What, your question does not make sense, or I am missing what you are asking?

There is only one eternity with God, not with an s.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2017, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32 - Top