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Old 07-13-2009, 01:31 PM
 
434 posts, read 610,876 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stillkit View Post
If you had run up $100,000 in credit card debt and someone you don't even know offered to pay it off for you, as an act of love and charity, would you reject that?

It's the same with Salvation. Why would you reject what was, and is, a free-will offer from Christ?
if he said that i'll have to worship him and believe that he is 'the way' otherwise i'll go to hell, then YES! i would reject that $100,000.
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Old 07-13-2009, 02:22 PM
 
Location: Boston, MA
61 posts, read 117,262 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evidence-is-key View Post
one thing i've never been able to figure out about the faith of christianity....so help me understand.

why is it that you 'need' someone else (ie. christ) to pay for YOUR sins?
I say, if you're a sinner and choose to sin, they YOU pay for your own sins!
sound fair?
Why is it that you feel the need for someone else to take the blame for what YOU do wrong?



ps. Correction on the title of the post. the second "christ" should be "Cross". Sorry. Can someone please fix that for me? it won't let me.

Think about prehistoric man, his intellect rising from his newly evolved brain. Everytime a new generations brain got bigger, more and more things must be explained. As man evolved and his brain increased in size and complexity, it sought out new meaning in things which have no meaning. Arrive at present day. Where we still do not fully understand the how or the why to everything. Maybe we never will.

Seeking understanding, seeking enlightenment, man would previous to religion sacrifice animals in tribal communities. When it didn't rain enough, man created dances to try to appease the rain gods. Prehistoric Cro Magnon Man was polytheistic. That is for everything that was outside the scope of his understanding and intellect, he created a new god. Many ancient societies display this behavior. The evolution of all of these sacrifices into one final sacrifice was simply an evolution of old prehistoric stories. Many religious proponents don't even understand that there are many scrolls where a "jesus" like character existed before he existed in judeo-christian right.

So jesus christ was simply an evolution of religion. It did for mankinds understanding of god and religion what Einstein did for the scientific community with his revelation of the general theory of relativity.

Jesus Christ is simply our modern day concept of god. But there are already new religions springing up, seeking to appease those of us who are technological and contemporary, like the bunk new religion of Scientology. Those fervent proponents of Christianity would have you believe that the root of all religion and authority comes from god. Buddhists also believe in the concept of god as one of "infinite light" or "infinite wisdom". They also believe that any new religion that is not focused on what they particularly believe is the work of the devil. But these concepts are merely projections of the struggle between our physical selves and our newly acquired mental capacity. Our brain is bigger than anything else on this planet, and with all that brain comes a need for a whole heck of a lot of explanation.

Watch this presentation on ted:
Dan Gilbert asks, Why are we happy? | Video on TED.com


Just as we will evolve so will all of our own ideas and constructs. Religion will also evolve and go through its progressions. You see, religion and science are really just a reflection of our own mental projections as human beings. All of our collective thoughts and beliefs as a species as we evolve and seek meaning.

Think about it this way, what if the Bonobo Ape's (see presentation here: Susan Savage-Rumbaugh on apes | Video on TED.com) started to evolve as well, if we could put them in an incubator and speed up time. They too would start to seek meaning. Think about all of the erroneous thoughts and beliefs they would have as they evolved? Wouldn't they also go through several "ages" or iterations of different ideals and beliefs.

How would they think of us? Would they see us as gods in control of their environment?

This is why christ had to die on the cross, so that we could evolve and so that we could stop following old and ancient rituals of sacrificing animals or making "burnt" offerings to "god", along with many other such lunacies evolved out of Cro-Magnon's brain. For man living during those times, once he was "saved" he now didn't have to feel bad or sacrifice an animal for every bad little thing he did against his community or brethren, in fact, he was already forgiven. All he had to do is accept god and he was forgiven.

Many of us still find comfort in this, as even if you are an atheist and even if you do not believe in god, you are still human and you still have all of the problems humans have. Human emotions, imperfect human biology. And imperfect thinking. We are animals with fears arising out of our prehistoric minds. Think about our fight or flight response? Why or how did this come to exist?

How do *you* balance your intellect with your emotions? Through Christ of course.

You get it now?

Last edited by Lcstyle; 07-13-2009 at 02:45 PM..
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Old 07-13-2009, 02:44 PM
 
Location: Naptowne, Alaska
15,013 posts, read 25,359,888 times
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We didn't "need" him to die for us. He did that voluntarily. And we were given the option to live by his simple rules...or suffer in the end.
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Old 07-13-2009, 02:50 PM
 
434 posts, read 610,876 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rance View Post
We didn't "need" him to die for us. He did that voluntarily. And we were given the option to live by his simple rules...or suffer in the end.
but why should you receive that ultimatum?
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Old 07-13-2009, 02:52 PM
 
Location: England
1,169 posts, read 1,497,256 times
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He was pierced for our transgressions
and bruised for our iniquities;
and to bring us peace he was punished,
and by his stripes we are healed.

He was led like a lamb to the slaughter
although he was innocent of crime;
and cut off from the land of the living,
He paid for the guilt that was mine.

We like sheep have gone astray,
turned each one to his own way,
and the Lord has laid on him
the iniquity of us all.



And all I can say is "Thank you Jesus, for taking my sin, for getting beaten and flogged and mocked - for being spat at and laughed at. King of Glory, Thank you, for taking MY punishment. Setting ME free. By your wounds I am healed. Thank you, Thank you Lord"
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Old 07-13-2009, 02:55 PM
 
Location: Boston, MA
61 posts, read 117,262 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rance View Post
We didn't "need" him to die for us. He did that voluntarily. And we were given the option to live by his simple rules...or suffer in the end.
Right right, so what about those suffering in the here and now? Oh thats right I forgot, that's nothing compared to an eternity of damnation. Give me a break. You can make your life here on earth hell if you so choose. Many even agree that there are much worse things than death itself.

Also your argument that bad things happen to good people because god says "Not one is good" is total garbage. We are all both good and bad. To be subjective is ignorant. Those who commit crimes are simply mental defectives, not possessed by the devil. If you start looking at humans more as animals and less like the idealized "person" or "human" then the world starts making more sense. We are animals trying to police and organize ourselves.

Take a dog and kick it everyday, and take another one and raise it up in ideal conditions. What do you get on either side?

Same thing with humans. This world turns some of us into animals who lie, cheat, steal and kill. But not one of us if given the choice would choose that. Except of course for the truly mentally deranged or incapacitated. They too are victims of their own faulty biology.

Please, Don't get me started.
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Old 07-13-2009, 03:06 PM
 
Location: Boston, MA
61 posts, read 117,262 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jennaflorrie View Post

And all I can say is "Thank you Jesus, for taking my sin, for getting beaten and flogged and mocked - for being spat at and laughed at. King of Glory, Thank you, for taking MY punishment. Setting ME free. By your wounds I am healed. Thank you, Thank you Lord"
See if you truly understand the biology of the human animal, you start to understand people such as jennaflorrie. There is nothing wrong with her, I believe that she TRULY feels the way that she says she feels. She feels relief at the thought of not having to be perfect and not having to feel bad about the sins she has or will commit in her life because she understands that she is not perfect and that there is a higher power in her life that has already forgiven her.

This experience is quite liberating and is quite ingrained in our biology. Apparently this is something that evolutionarily was necessary for our survival.

The human psyche is great at experiencing guilt and remorse to the point that it is necessary to have an archetypical christ who was not only killed but was also like jennaflorrie described beaten and dismembered because deep down in the human psyche we all know we can commit horrific and animalistic acts of murder and rape. These are things in our psyche that are part of our primordial soup if you will. But how we justify these things and come to terms with them with our newly evolved big brain that is constantly seeking to justify, rectify, categorize and organize all of these disparaging ideas and emotions, (which i might add are largely based on chemical processes) is through religion and through Christ.

So you see religion and ardent believers are not something to be annoyed at or laughed at.

It is simply meant to be understood. So the next time a bible beater hits you with his particular religion, just smile and wish them well.
They are humans and like them, one day you too will perish.

"all we are is dust in the wind"

Jenna Florie, I applaud you for sharing with us your beliefs!

What gets me is how more people don't experience cognitive dissonance. It's like they become completely unbalanced, eventually though they will experience at least some cognitive dissonance and they will either depending on their own life circumstances sweep it under the rug and hide it or act on it.
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Old 09-03-2009, 02:53 PM
 
205 posts, read 138,051 times
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Because we can't come up to God's standard no mater how much you think you are a fine moral person.
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Old 09-03-2009, 03:02 PM
 
205 posts, read 138,051 times
Reputation: 48
Part of what you say is true that Jesus volunteered to be sacrifice for man kind. But the other part is from Satan you can't live a holy descent life and please God or glorify him what pleases him is learning what he has done for you not what you can do for him. Paul said go in Grace and knowledge of the lord Jesus Christ. If you have a bad habit you give it to God and keep giving it to him if he thinks it interferes with your walk with him he will take it away. There is no such word as Christ like in the Bible because anything you can give up thinking this is spiritual the unbeliever can give up also does this mean he is spiritual??
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Old 09-03-2009, 05:49 PM
 
2,250 posts, read 2,645,164 times
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His handle is "Evidence is Key", yet he won't accept the evidence; his disdain for God has already been established, and it skews his thinking.

God has given plenty of evidence of His existence through creation; and, He really reveals Himself when we walk with Him in complete obedience. Jesus said, "seek and ye shall find". If people really want to find out if God is real, they will humble themselves and implement Jesus' words -- and He proves Himself. Glory be to God!

But, if you have a disdain toward God, or you want a God on your terms, then all you will get is a one-way ticket to a devil's hell. The humble will be exalted, and the proud will be cut down.
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