Ooooh I'm skeeeerd (Christ, Bible, worship, verse)

[Ilene Wright]

[quote=Phazelwood;9750403]

I accept my fate and ask that I be damned forever if indeed a God has made creation only to not be thoughtful enough to create a plan that would never give up on anyone, EVER.

Just so we're clear here, you'd rather go to hell than accept God's Word and HIS plan? You're not the first one I've heard say this. This has got to be the most bizarre thing I have ever heard anyone say about themselves and God. It's like something a child would say.

A child throws a tantrum when they don't get their way too. "wah, if I can't have it my way then I don't want it at all!!!" (stomps feet and falls in the floor screaming and writhing)

There are other words I could use to describe this but I think the statement speaks for itself.

I accept that if I indeed have helped along people into an eternal hell for thinking to highly of a loving God, then I will share with all those who suffer at my words.

Why not just do what God tells us to do rather than doing what you want to do? Spread the gospel of Jesus Christ and SNATCH people from the fire!! That should be your main concern, not whether hell is eternal or not.

[Blueberry]

Originally Posted by pcamps

I happen to believe it is short sighted to bring the nature and character of God below that of man.
That He would send billions to an oven of eternal torture that would make Hitler and the SS proud.
Then you turn around and have a problem with Hitler in heaven , why ?

Pcamps, you have a tendency to put words in my mouth that I never spoke nor hinted at. I haven't taken a stand on eternal torture; I just reject universal reconciliation.

You are the one who is bringing the nature and character of God below that of man. In the universalist thinking, God can never torture anyone eternally because it goes against the human mindset; therefore, God must be at least as compassionate and loving and forgiving as man. Universalists even reject annihilation because it implies God isn't able to save everyone. From what I've been able to gather, the whole universalist doctrine looks at God through the prism of human emotion.

I acknowledge that God's ways are not my ways and His thoughts are not my thoughts. I trust Him to be the righteous judge of humanity, whether I agree with His decisions or not. I recognize that my heart/emotions can be deceitful; therefore, I choose to place my trust in God, not my limited human understanding and emotions.

[I LOVE NORTH CAROLINA]

Originally Posted by Ilene Wright

Why not just do what God tells us to do rather than doing what you want to do? Spread the gospel of Jesus Christ and SNATCH people from the fire!! That should be your main concern, not whether hell is eternal or not.

AMEN!!!!!!!! There is way too much fighting and debating about hell on all most all of these threads lately and not much about Jesus!

[RobinD69]

Originally Posted by Phazelwood

You make an assertion that reduces your credibility, you may disagree with me, but keep your self righteousness to yourself as I do search the scriptures.

Why do you think you are righteous to make an accusation such as that?
What makes you so great in the eyes of God that you can throw around this accusation over the fact you disagree with what I believe?

Are you going to make another assertion that I get angry because I face the truth you spill out of your righteousness?

Goes back to fundies objection to me, your just a jerk and your God does not give you the excuse to accuse in this nature.

I never said I was righteous and you even go so far as name calling. Can you find scripture that back up your venom.

[Phazelwood]

Originally Posted by Blueberry

Wouldn't it be better to trust God for who he IS

It is my firm belief of who he is that drives me to my statements. If people are actually seeking who he is, then why do so many object and say that's who he isn't so quickly?

That seems to be a rather cavalier attitude toward God and your own destination.

Then again please take the time to read my OP here in this thread. I believe what I believe and have walked a walk that has caused me to come to the conclusion of how great God is. I teach that where ever I can, I am saying that if my belief of how great God is and what I teach has caused me to lead people into a place where God will abandon them, then I choose to be there with them.

Now please explain why I need to save myself?

[RobinD69]

Originally Posted by Phazelwood

It is my firm belief of who he is that drives me to my statements. If people are actually seeking who he is, then why do so many object and say that's who he isn't so quickly?




Then again please take the time to read my OP here in this thread. I believe what I believe and have walked a walk that has caused me to come to the conclusion of how great God is. I teach that where ever I can, I am saying that if my belief of how great God and what I teach has caused me to lead people into a place where God will abandon them, then I choose to be there with them.

Now please explain why I need to save myself?

John 7:24 "Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgement."

[Snowtiger76]

Ironmaw,

Phillipians 2 - Yes every knee will bow to God. Even the demons do and will recognize Christ Jesus as Lord, hense those under the Earth; however, they will be forever in rebellion against God along with all those who fall into the pit.

Psalm 86 - For those who turn from their sins and call on the name of God will receive mercy. Therefore all nations that repent and call upon God will worship God. This is the message of Psalm 86.

Jeremiah - Here it clearly identifies that "all nations" refer to all who repent and turn unto God. God is pleading with his children; yet the majority of Isrealites never turned back to God, but rather truned to idols of their own damned creation.

Isaiah 46 - All those of the seed of Israel shall be saved. Who is of the seed of Isreal? Those indowed by the righteousness that comes by faith for righteousness does not come by merely follwing the law. The law simply identifies sin. W/o the love of Christ, mankind is lost in sin.

Revelations 21 - Back up to Revelation 20:10. For those who suppress the truth in favor of the lie will be tormented forever. Now th New Jerusalam of Rev 21 is reserved for the righteous.

1 Corinthians 15 - Those things which leadeth unto death will be defeated. All of God's enemies will be defeated. They will not inherit the New Jersalem nor will they ever by their own eternal choices. He is writing this letter concerning divisions among the Corinthians. In chapter 15, he is essentially separating the goats and the sheep. He is separating the wolves from the sheep.

I have agreed that God never gives up, but have only put forth that those in Hell eternally hate God and therefore are forever lost in their sins. Now there are some questionable verses in the bible that may support your cuase; although I am not sure they would hermeneutically.

[firstborn888]

Originally Posted by Campbell34

Well, the Bible does tell us that the fallen angles, which I believe to be demons were cast down into Hell according to II Peter 2:4.

In tartaroo bound till judgement day. Doesn't fit your story.

Originally Posted by Campbell34

And the Bible also tells us, that fallen angles will be released and will play a part in the destruction of one third of the human race according to Revelation 9:15.

14 saying to the sixth angel who had the trumpet, "Release the four angels who are bound at the great river Euphrates." 15 So the four angels, who had been prepared for the hour and day and month and year, were released to kill a third of mankind.

Again - this messengers of death passage says nothing of 'fallen angels' or 'demons from hell'. You're reading church mythology into the story.

Originally Posted by Campbell34

My personal experience with them was fearful, yet if I had to go through it again, I would. Only because it confirmed the truth of the Scriptures, and I experienced first hand the power found in the name Jesus Christ.

I'm glad you found the power of Jesus but your experience doesn't confirm the scriptures.

[firstborn888]

Originally Posted by Blueberry

No, Phazelwood did say that if the true God doesn't act the way he (Phazelwood) wants him to in relation to saving all, then he (Phazelwood) wants no part of that true God.

That, my friend, is venturing into false teaching and blasphemy. It's saying that we humans are above the true God. It's saying that we are more just and more loving than the true God. It does not recognize that God's ways are not our ways and His thoughts are not our thoughts. It doesn't leave room for personal error. Phazelwood, in essence, is saying, "I am right." He has rejected the true God if that God doesn't agree with him and if that God doesn't save everyone. Phazelwood has given God his marching orders, and God better follow suit or else!

How shortsighted to reject the true God just because He doesn't act the way we, with our human understanding and emotions, want Him to. Whatever happened to trust?

Phazelwood has scripture to back up his belief in universal salvation. That's where the trust is.

[Phazelwood]

Originally Posted by Snowtiger76

Ironmaw,

Phillipians 2 - Yes every knee will bow to God. Even the demons do and will recognize Christ Jesus as Lord, hense those under the Earth; however, they will be forever in rebellion against God along with all those who fall into the pit.

Let's take a closer look at that passage.

Phl 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of [things] in heaven, and [things] in earth, and [things] under the earth;
Phl 2:11 And [that] every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ [is] Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Here is my issue with what your saying, it is not about just feeling a "dislike" it is not seeing scripture adding up to what you say being "To the glory of the father"

God "does" as he pleases, so the question then can be asked, what pleases God.

Well, one thing that pleases him is

1Ti 2:3 For this [is] good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
1Ti 2:4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.

Some then apply a context to 1 Timothy 2:4 to say that the word will is actually only a desire. Would that be a desire like a man? Seriously, does God only desire like you and I? Is that about feelings here?

Isa 46:10 Telling from the beginning, the hereafter, and from aforetime, what has not yet been done. Saying, `All My counsel shall be confirmed, and all My desire will I do.'

People make the argument, "well God doesn't want someone to get raped but it happens". But that is a separate issue. We do have a free will and God has planned for all our choices.

Pr 5:21 For the ways of a man are before the eyes of Yahweh, Who ponders all his routes

I'll take a risk in the lexicon game and say that the rightful meaning of the greek word translated to ponders here means "to prepare the way"

God doesn't rape but he knew man would, but what "WE DO" (we are accountable for) is not from a declaration of what GOD desires TO DO. Two separate issues.

So, I am sure much more could be written, but what doesn't God like.

Ezk 33:11 Say unto them, I live--an affirmation of the Lord Yahweh, I delight not in the death of the wicked, But--in the turning of the wicked from his way, And he has lived, Turn back, turn back, from your evil ways, Yea, why do you die, O house of Israel?

I look at scripture as the face of spiritual destiny and even though this passage depicts something other than "all mankind" God does not change, so "To God the Fathers Glory" cannot be eternal doom of any nature.