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What you say, Iron, is very true for Christian intellects, those with the brainpower to assimilate countless theories, discern (hopefully through the HS) and toss the garbage. The average Christian, however, (and certainly not the TBN word-faith-following crowd) will never get a quarter-way to first base trying to untangle all this. It truly is the honor of kings to search the answers out, but notice, only the kings and their immediate court had the education to pursue understanding. Most of us are like the common man--uninformed, uneducated, intellectually not capable of grasping the finer details of what God wants us to comprehend. At least it seems that way to me. Maybe not.
I will disagree here, it is those who have been stripped of all they once were contaminated with who are then able to receive.
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In that hour Jesus rejoiced in spirit, and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes: even so, Father; for so it seemed good in thy sight.
There are more things "out there" than ever to blind us to the simplicity that God is to be All in all, not the least of which is the carnal mind. It's the hardest thing to simply trust in Him.
The notion that sin is overlooked is false. They threw that at Jesus as well, because He dared parden; but He did something else - He changed people. God will indeed deal with sin for He hates it, but He does not hate the sinner.
What you say, Iron, is very true for Christian intellects, those with the brainpower to assimilate countless theories, discern (hopefully through the HS) and toss the garbage. The average Christian, however, (and certainly not the TBN word-faith-following crowd) will never get a quarter-way to first base trying to untangle all this. It truly is the honor of kings to search the answers out, but notice, only the kings and their immediate court had the education to pursue understanding. Most of us are like the common man--uninformed, uneducated, intellectually not capable of grasping the finer details of what God wants us to comprehend. At least it seems that way to me. Maybe not.
Well, first things first. Before you can begin to fathom the mysteries of the bible, you must open your heart and mind and question what you have been taught and allow the spirit to convict your conscience and reason of the truth before you will ever begin to truly connect the dots. It takes allot of humility, patience and diligence. It also takes allot of courage and faith to step out from under the umbrella of popular religious indoctrination and put it all to the test by thorough examination of all relevant issues biblical and extra-biblical.
I agree, not everyone is cut out for this type of study and learning. But I believe God has put in the hearts of some few to do this work, for the many who are not able, and provide the ground work and heavy lifting for the re-emergence of these gospel truths. It remains the work of God to convict the hearts of the masses when the work is done and the information is finally really out there. We are still in the beginning stages of this new reformation, though i think this new reformation is far more powerful than the last and may occur far more rapidly in the long run ... then again it may not, it may take even more time, only time will tell.
Last edited by Ironmaw1776; 07-14-2009 at 01:39 PM..
No. He is saying it is God's purpose and intent to conceal his message so that most people would not understand.
2 Thes 2:11 For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie
Matt 13:11 He replied, "The knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them.
God purposely sent a delusion and did not give the secrets of the kingdom to certain people, so they would not be savedat that time. This was for God's timing and purpose.
This is so He can reveal it later and have mercy on them later. When God comes in His full glory, all will be revealed and all will understand and be humbled. All will bow, confess, and swear allegiance once this veil of strong delusion has been removed.
And God will be faithful to His promise to bless every family and save all men.
Gen 28:14 Your descendants will be like the dust of the earth, and you will spread out to the west and to the east, to the north and to the south. All peoples on earth will be blessed through you and your offspring.
And we will have all learned how to be good.
Wow! That is one of the worst taking of a scripture out of context that I have seen yet! The ones that God sends the strong delusion is the evil people who have rejected His will, and are following evil ways!
" All things that pretain to life and godliness" have been given us, and we do not need anyone to tell us what they are! They are very plainly stated in the scriptures.
Talk about "picking and chosing" !
All we have to do is study to show ourselves approved, a workman rightly dividing the word of God.
The New Testament was written to all Christians, of all ages. It does not need interpreting. All one needs to do is obey Christ, as plainly recorded in the New Testament, and then continue in His teachings. All that God meant for us to know is there.
If anyone does not understand the NT it is because they are rejecting it as the word of God.
Wow! That is one of the worst taking of a scripture out of context that I have seen yet! The ones that God sends the strong delusion is the evil people who have rejected His will, and are following evil ways!
What is His will, and how many here reject it?
The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. (2 Pet 3:9)
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Originally Posted by Towhee
The New Testament was written to all Christians, of all ages. It does not need interpreting. All one needs to do is obey Christ, as plainly recorded in the New Testament, and then continue in His teachings. All that God meant for us to know is there.
If anyone does not understand the NT it is because they are rejecting it as the word of God.
The writer of the majority of the NT proclaimed God will be all in all, through the dispensation of the ages, His mystery to be revealed.
The writer of the majority of the NT proclaimed God will be all in all, through the dispensation of the ages, His mystery to be revealed
Amen and amen.
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And I'm going to believe the Bible over some new age kind of teaching.
The belief in the eventual restoration of all to God is not some new age teaching, ILNC, as has been shared time and time again. It has existed since the early days of the church. Some who preached eternal hell to masses held to this belief privately based on what was revealed in the scriptures so we really don't know how many Christians believed it. It is found in the scriptures. God bless.
Wow! That is one of the worst taking of a scripture out of context that I have seen yet! The ones that God sends the strong delusion is the evil people who have rejected His will, and are following evil ways!
Towhee, this is God's will:
1 Tim 2:3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour; 4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
Now who is rejecting His will? Scripture teaches God will have all men to be saved, but the mainstream church teaches God will not have all men to be saved.
Just thought I would add some relevant info for detractors of universal salvation.
I myself believed in Eternal Torment/Hell for 30 years. For much of that time I couldn't understand it. For some of that time I thought those that would end up in hell would deserve it. For a period in my life this led to me ostracizing many people from my life. This only lasted for a short period and then I stopped thinking about hell, because it didn't make sense any longer.
Later on after a few years I returned to be more heavily involved in the church again. And I started studying more and praying more. I also got caught up in some of the "end times" mania. It was during this period that I really prayed and asked God to show me the truth: to show me how I would be protected from the mark of the beast and how I could possibly survive if such a system were actually implemented.
I kept studying and praying, and eventually I came across a few web-sites that believed in UR (universal reconcilliation). Within a few days of study I knew I was onto the real truth. Now fast forward 2 years later. I have been studying the bible every day for those 2 years. I've read more of the bible since then than I had in the previous 30 years.
Why did I believe in eternal torment for 30 years and then suddenly believe in UR? What changed? I prayed to God for understanding. I opened my mind to the possibility of some alternative and uncomfortable ideas. And I actually started to really study the bible. But I believe it was God who opened my eyes.
Don't close your mind because it conflicts with your comfort zone. The truth is not easy to find, but it is worth it.
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