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Old 07-14-2009, 07:24 AM
 
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Hi,

This is for you regulars (and anyone else) who don't believe God will save all and can't understand why some people would think God would be able to save all.

Read this article:

Merciful Truth

Here is the first few paragraphs as a teaser:

Let's just face the question head on. How many have wondered? Why would a loving God make people he created burn forever and ever for not knowing Him or believing in Him? How can a loving God subject billions of people he loves to endless torment? It's a fair question.

Some Christians will recoil from answering it, fearing an offense to God by showing doubt. Others may jeer, rolling their eyes, having heard that one before, and open their response with "Who are you to..." Some may have a thoughtful reply on hand (complete with a metaphor), having worked it out in their minds that it somehow makes sense. They may point to God's justice, as if polar opposite to his Love. They may even suggest that their version of God's justice is more supreme than God's love.

Yet, deep inside, most of us have wondered at some time. Must God do such a thing? Can't true justice be fulfilled without such a merciless act?
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Old 07-14-2009, 07:26 AM
 
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And before anyone comments or feels I need to read Matt 25:41, PLEASE READ THE ARTICLE FIRST!
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Old 07-14-2009, 09:23 AM
 
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Here is an excerpt from the same article. The scriptures tell us what "eternal" (aionios) life is, and it isn't immortality.

--

1 John 3:14-17
We know that we have passed from death to life, because we love our brothers. Anyone who does not love remains in death. Anyone who hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer
has
aionios life IN HIM. This is how we know what love is: Jesus Christ laid down his life for us. And we ought to lay down our lives for our brothers. If anyone has material possessions and sees his brother in need but has no pity on him, how can the love of God be IN him?

Did you catch that? According to John, where does aionios-life abide? If your answer is: "it dwells within" you get a prize. And this is the prize: Biblical accuracy. Doesn't it make sense? If someone hates his brother in his heart how could he have LIFE within him? Obviously he couldn't. With that in mind, here is Jesus Christ's explicit definition of "aionios-life" in His own words:

John 17:3
And this is life aionios: that they might know you, the one true God, and Him whom You did send, Jesus Christ.


When the Bible says "this is," you ought to pay close attention; it means God could be defining something for you. Here, God has given you the true definition of aionios-life, directly from His Son's voice. Does someone who hates his brother really know God, and does he have this knowledge within him? No. He remains in death. Contrary to these truths, according to pop-Christianity, aionios-life is something we must secure now to obtain after death. Really? Then, do they admit that they do not have aionios-life within them now? Are they waiting until the afterlife to receive aionios-life within them?
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Old 07-14-2009, 09:27 AM
 
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[Don't] confuse immortality with the life-of-the-ages. Just read the Scripture and believe it for yourselves. See how Apostle John's definition is aligned with Christ's definition:
1 John 5:20
And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true,
even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and aionios-life.
Hello! Here we have yet another Biblical "this is" statement with regard to aionios-life. Do you see the simplicity in the truth? THIS IS aionios-life: that WE MAY KNOW HIM today (that is true) that we are in IN CHRIST today (that is true) - because the Son of God is come. Do you see anything in that definition about being physically alive everlasting? Of course not, because Paul already carefully made the distinction between life and immortality.

He says that both have come to light through the Gospel. Immortality will be added to the life-of-the-ages, after our physical deaths. It is at that point, Paul says, "this mortal must put on immortality." (1 Cor 15:53)
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Old 07-14-2009, 09:35 AM
 
Location: NW Arkansas
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"and can't understand why some people would think God would be able to save all."

Who can't understand ??? We believe in the scriptures. The problem is those who cannot understand the scriptures!

I believe most of us understand that God is able to do anything and everything....including judging all who reject Him and His word.

The problem here is all who are laboring under the new belief that everyone who does bad things is not evil....just sick! Just slap them on the back of their hand, and say "now now, don't do that" ! And turn them loose in society to repeat their meanness.
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Old 07-14-2009, 09:41 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Towhee View Post
"and can't understand why some people would think God would be able to save all."

Who can't understand ??? We believe in the scriptures. The problem is those who cannot understand the scriptures!

I believe most of us understand that God is able to do anything and everything....including judging all who reject Him and His word.

The problem here is all who are laboring under the new belief that everyone who does bad things is not evil....just sick! Just slap them on the back of their hand, and say "now now, don't do that" ! And turn them loose in society to repeat their meanness.
Apparently you can't understand Towhee, because no one said anything about your "new belief" of slaps on the back of the hand and loosing people into society to only repeat their meanness. Perhaps you are talking about our court system?


Did you read the article like I requested? Or should I just cut and paste the whole article here in small segments (but I think that would be a ToS violation)? The article is backed with scripture, so we can debate what the scripture means if you want.


Maybe we should discuss why two people can read the same exact scripture, and one person concludes God will save all, while the other person concludes God will not save all. Obviously someone is not understanding the scripture.
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Old 07-14-2009, 09:59 AM
 
Location: God's Country
21,417 posts, read 29,542,083 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Towhee View Post
Who can't understand ??? We believe in the scriptures. The problem is those who cannot understand the scriptures!

I believe most of us understand that God is able to do anything and everything....including judging all who reject Him and His word.

The problem here is all who are laboring under the new belief that everyone who does bad things is not evil....just sick! Just slap them on the back of their hand, and say "now now, don't do that" ! And turn them loose in society to repeat their meanness.
AMEN Towhee! The Bible does not teach everyone will be saved, but that there will be eternal separation from God for those who choose to reject Him, their choice. And I'm going to believe the Bible over some new age kind of teaching.
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Old 07-14-2009, 10:04 AM
 
Location: Germany
1,647 posts, read 1,707,770 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I LOVE NORTH CAROLINA View Post
AMEN Towhee! The Bible does not teach everyone will be saved, but that there will be eternal separation from God for those who choose to reject Him, their choice. And I'm going to believe the Bible over some new age kind of teaching.
can you answer me (refute) this:

Many claim that death in its theological sense is not primarily cessation of life but rather continuance of life in conscious misery.

I agree that death is separation from God,
not only from God, but also from friends, beloved ones, the pleasures of lifeÖ

However I think it is also separation from illness, sorrow and pain, it is separation from life itself, as God is the provider of life nothing can exist outside, absolutely separated from God.

Death separates, yes, from God and men, from joy and sorrow, good and evil. Death is the opposite of life, if life is one in binary numbers, death is zero.

Life can be very painful, so if death is primarily a painful life worse than any normal life could be, it wouldnít be the opposite of life.

I think itís an artificial exegesis, to claim death in its theological sense means everlasting torment, the loss of only good things while bad things remain.

I agree that death is loss, but not only loss of good things, but of everything, itís loss of joy, but also loss of sorrow, itís loss of life, emotion, experience, consciousness and existence. Everything else is an irrational and artificial exegesis to twist the bible in my opinion. Death is an enemy worse enough, who of us wants to lose oneís friends, beloved ones? Who wants to be dead when he could experience joy and happiness?
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Old 07-14-2009, 10:05 AM
 
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IMPORTANT REMINDER!

IMPORTANT REMINDER!

IMPORTANT REMINDER!


Please try to read the article before commenting.

Merciful Truth

Carry on...
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Old 07-14-2009, 10:08 AM
 
6,221 posts, read 6,405,821 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I LOVE NORTH CAROLINA View Post
AMEN Towhee! The Bible does not teach everyone will be saved, but that there will be eternal separation from God for those who choose to reject Him, their choice. And I'm going to believe the Bible over some new age kind of teaching.
First, ILNC, did you read the article?

As to your points:

1. The bible does not teach everyone will be saved.

FALSE

2. The bible teaches eternal separation for those who choose to reject Him.

FALSE


Especially point #2, where does this idea of "separation" from God come from? Those in the Lake of Fire are tormented in the presence of the LAMB! Doesn't sound like separation to me.


Your own beliefs contradict plain scripture ILNC.
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