Personal Advice (woman, church, scriptures, prayers) - - City-Data Forum

limapie · 07-14-2009, 06:20 PM

I recently saw the priest who allowed the in vitro-receiving relative
of mine to have her baby shower in the church basement.
I tactfully was "out of town," and couldn't make the shower.
I have yet to bestow my shower gift...mostly because,
I guess, I really don't want to give it.
Well, seeing this priest (who is always quietly tolerant to a fault)
reminded me that one day I was going to
"bump" into this relative couple and then I was going to
be forced to speak....something. But what?

Yes, I'm happy about the new, little life coming late August, but
horrified that this educated woman caused the killing of
several little human beings in the process of conceiving.

I don't want to come off as judgmental. That isn't my place.
Yet, I am called to profess to the world what God's wishes are.
How is the world supposed to know in vitro is sin and
a great evil, if God's workers don't SAY something?

How are people who've already done in vitro know that they can
repent that sin before it is too late, if God's workers don't
SAY something?

Just what am I going to say upon that chance meeting?

I can't just not say nothing, that is for sure. My nature
won't allow that because, yes, I am judgmental deep down.
I need someone here on this thread to give me "Jesus" words
to make the point clear,
but not to brimstone them further into the grief that they have
already earned for themselves...unless they find their way into repentance.

alanMolstad · 07-14-2009, 06:33 PM

(Im a pro-Life Christian, so here comes a pro-Life point of view for you to consider...)

You have to put the child ahead of your own feelings...

The child has a right to be born and to have people love to see it and have everyone thankfull to see it born.

While we may disagree strongly with some things doctors do, we have to show only love and support for this child.
And that means we also must step up and support the mother so that the child's family can know they have the support system they might need should trouble come one day.

So, My advice...
Smile, Thank God for the safe birth of the child, and never say squat about the other things that bother you....

Its like this:
"Bible Smarts" teach you some things to say
"Bible Wisdom" teaches you when to zip your mouth and say nothing...

stillkit · 07-14-2009, 07:13 PM

How do you know it's a "sin?"

"Judge not, lest ye be judged likewise."

alanMolstad · 07-14-2009, 07:33 PM

science can do many great things.

Children that would have died for sure not many years ago, now are saved and grow up and have their own children one day.
Science is truly a great gift to mankind...and many doctors save a lot of children that have great needs.

But there is a darker side to science too.
That in the effort to help man and woman have a child, that sometimes many children are cast away and lost along the way.
It is a hard thing, to feel happy at the birth of a child, while knowing that to make this child many of the child's own brothers and sisters have died along the way.

BUT....You have to put joy in your heart!
No matter the tears for the loss of life you might feel, you have to put the life of the new child that is coming as being the important point of the issue now, and to give nothing but prayers of thankfulness as the birth draws near.

The child has a right to life, and Christians have a duty to pray for such a child and do what they can to help the child grow in love and faith.

eyewrist · 07-14-2009, 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alanMolstad

science can do many great things.

Children that would have died for sure not many years ago, now are saved and grow up and have their own children one day.
Science is truly a great gift to mankind...and many doctors save a lot of children that have great needs.

But there is a darker side to science too.
That in the effort to help man and woman have a child, that sometimes many children are cast away and lost along the way.
It is a hard thing, to feel happy at the birth of a child, while knowing that to make this child many of the child's own brothers and sisters have died along the way.

BUT....You have to put joy in your heart!
No matter the tears for the loss of life you might feel, you have to put the life of the new child that is coming as being the important point of the issue now, and to give nothing but prayers of thankfulness as the birth draws near.

The child has a right to life, and Christians have a duty to pray for such a child and do what they can to help the child grow in love and faith.

Amen. Unless you know exactly how they chose to do the process, you can't really know. I knew a couple who's wife could not carry babies to full term. Now with her trying over and over again, would you consider that murder?
Also another couple limited the number of eggs implanted to two or three in hopes they one will survive. The first time they had only one but the second time it was two. They are now a happy family of five and she is finished. IMHO the survival of any child is God's blessing onto that family

alanMolstad · 07-14-2009, 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eyewrist

Now with her trying over and over again, would you consider that murder?

There is a dark side to the whole issue that does cause us as Christians to pause.

None of us seek the death of any unborn child.
But we also must face our Christian duty and in this case our duty is to welcome all children with open arms and equal love.

Blueberry · 07-15-2009, 03:08 AM

James 3 talks about the tongue being an unruly evil, full of deadly poison. It goes on to state how we praise God with our mouths and turn around to curse men. James admonishes that blessing and cursing shouldn't come out of the same mouth.

In the situation you describe, I think I would choose to praise God for the new life and keep silent about the rest unless asked directly. To give thanks for new life but also talk about the "sin" of discarding the unused embryos seems to go against the principle found in James 3.

Furthermore, I'd be hesitant to call it sin because Romans 7 seems to indicate that the law convicts people of sin. Paul states in that chapter that he was once alive apart from the law, but once he became aware of the law, he was dead in sin. Other parts of the book of Romans back this up. Basically, I think people can act in ignorance and not be guilty of sin. The biblical precept seems to be that sin is a deliberate act in defiance of God and what we know to be right. Also, Romans 14 talks about not passing judgment on one another because of different convictions in the "gray" areas. Rather, each is to be fully convicted in his own mind. There's definitely a debate, even in Christian circles, about what constitutes life. Therefore, I would choose the path of extending grace, keep silent, and pray that God would nudge their hearts if something needs to be judged.

If asked directly, I would cautiously share my convictions without trying to sound judgmental. Perhaps I would point them to the Scriptures that I think define life, but I would also share the principles from Romans that I discussed above. I would suggest they petition God themselves for the answers they seek. Mostly, I would emphasize how much I love them and cherish the child, and I would leave the rest in God's hands.

yhwhshalomjr · 07-16-2009, 12:03 AM

Sound advice I might addl
from the heart of a very sound and special child of God
Your Friend
(thanks for the times that you have encouraged myself and others with the truth spoken in love for the race that is set before us, looking unto Jesus Christ the Author and Finisher of our Faith
God Bless You
Sorry I am not able to rep you right now

Sundance · 07-16-2009, 01:18 PM

Quote:

I don't want to come off as judgmental.

You are being judgmental ~ how do YOU know, that this specific baby, wasn't conceieved naturally?
Even if the woman was receiving in-vitro, I assume there is a one-in-a-million chance, that this baby
was not part of that process, but naturally conceived......but even if that isn't true, what business
is it of yours?

Quote:

That isn't my place.

Then MYOB.

Quote:

Yet, I am called to profess to the world what God's wishes are.

Oh, and you're the only person alive who knows God's wishes? If this person is a member of your
church and has a Bible, I presume she can read it. If you feel she is sinning, are you sinless, yourself?

It's a done deal, the baby is coming.

You remind me of a certain person I know, who was going to join a quilting group ~ UNTIL she found
out, that said quilts would be distributed to "unwed mothers."

Fundamentalist · 07-16-2009, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sundance

You are being judgmental ~ how do YOU know, that this specific baby, wasn't conceieved naturally?
Even if the woman was receiving in-vitro, I assume there is a one-in-a-million chance, that this baby
was not part of that process, but naturally conceived......but even if that isn't true, what business
is it of yours?

Then MYOB.

Oh, and you're the only person alive who knows God's wishes? If this person is a member of your
church and has a Bible, I presume she can read it. If you feel she is sinning, are you sinless, yourself?

It's a done deal, the baby is coming.

You remind me of a certain person I know, who was going to join a quilting group ~ UNTIL she found
out, that said quilts would be distributed to "unwed mothers."

That is not fair nor scriptural