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Lego, you have to be saved in this life, not when you are standing before the Lord on that Day.
Scripture doesn't actually say anywhere "you have to be saved in this life".
People often quote Heb 9:27 to support the idea that its too late after death, but Heb 9:27 does not say its too late or that you have to be saved in this life.
Scripture doesn't actually say anywhere "you have to be saved in this life".
People often quote Heb 9:27 to support the idea that its too late after death, but Heb 9:27 does not say its too late or that you have to be saved in this life.
Yes it does but obviously you don't agree and then we have two different opinions but one truth. You do no different than pro gay Christians who say, we don't see homosexual is a sin anywhere in the bible. That's not a good argument because anyone can opinionate away ANYTHING in the bible which they do. The bible is not a 20th century book written by a 20th century American author. Even if the bible said, "Legoman you can only be saved in this life" You will still be making the same argument or some variation to that argument.
Quote:
"Scripture doesn't actually say anywhere "you have to be saved in this life".
Last edited by Fundamentalist; 11-12-2009 at 07:28 AM..
Yes it does but obviously you don't agree and then we have two different opinions but one truth. You do no different than pro gay Christians who say, we don't see homosexual is a sin anywhere in the bible. That's not a good argument because anyone can opinionate away ANYTHING in the bible which they do. The bible is not a 20th century book written by a 20th century American author. Even if the bible said, "Legoman you can only be saved in this life" You will still be making the same argument or some variation to that argument.
I see no scripture to support your opinion, but I do see scripture that says:
- God is the saviour of all men
- God desires and wills all men to be saved
- God will achieve all His desires
- God's plan is to unify all things in Christ
- God is reconciling all things to himself
- everyone will bow and confess that Jesus is Lord
So your going to sit there and make up silly verses that don't exist as proof that you can only be saved in this life?
Scripture tells us God wants to save everyone and all will eventually come to God and call on His name. You just don't believe it.
I see no scripture to support your opinion, but I do see scripture that says:
- God is the saviour of all men
- God desires and wills all men to be saved
- God will achieve all His desires
- God's plan is to unify all things in Christ
- God is reconciling all things to himself
- everyone will bow and confess that Jesus is Lord
So your going to sit there and make up silly verses that don't exist as proof that you can only be saved in this life?
Scripture tells us God wants to save everyone and all will eventually come to God and call on His name. You just don't believe it.
Please don't create strawmans with bizarre accusations. You are pitting universalism against my view of scripture and then say, "I don't believe" OF COURSE I DON'T, it's universalism not scripture. I believe in everything you just said because it is in scripture but I disagree with your context in how you interpret scripture using your presupposition of universalism.
Of course you wouldn't even if the bible said explicitly what your argument asks, because of your presupposition you still wouldn't believe and you will find some other argument to opinionate it away ...you are a universalist, it is your symptom. You have the pressuposition that there is purgatory. You would not see the other side because your presupposition forces you to read scripture a different way as does my "presupposition" forces me to read scripture another way. Your presupposition of universalism influences how you interpret verses such as these and not the other way around so to say, I don't see scripture to support your opinion....I say...no guff sherlock.
Please don't create strawmans with bizarre accusations, I believe in everything you just said but I disagree with your context in how you interpret it. I don't believe in "universalism" your presupposition of how you interpret those verses.
Of course you wouldn't even if the bible said explicitly what your argument asks, because of your presupposition you still wouldn't believe and you will find some other argument to opinionate it away ...you are a universalist, it is your symptom. You have the pressuposition that there is purgatory. You would not see the other side because your presupposition forces you to read scripture a different way as does my "presupposition" forces me to read scripture another way. Your presupposition of universalism influences how you interpret verses such as these and not the other way around so to say, I don't see scripture to support your opinion....I say...no guff sherlock.
Fundy,
1. Do you believe God desires to save all men?
2. Do you believe God achieves His desires?
If you believe both of these to be true, then you cannot also believe God sends/predestines/causes/allows some men to be tormented for etenity.
Its that simple. I'm guessing you don't actually believe the above 2 points, even though you say you do.
1. Do you believe God desires to save all men? Yes
2. Do you believe God achieves His desires? Yes and no...He desires we don't sin...and yet
If you believe both of these to be true, then you cannot also believe God sends/predestines/causes/allows some men to be tormented for etenity.
Its that simple. I'm guessing you don't actually believe the above 2 points, even though you say you do.
I don't base the whole council of God on 2 points. I base the whole council of God based on all of scripture. I see all that in scripture. I can only go from scripture, not what I believe or think, or is my opinion. I look at scripture and try to harmonize God based off scripture. I don't harmonize scripture based on what I think God is.
If God allows innocent girls to be raped and murdered? how is that farfetched? Is it the idea of eternity?...Either God is a loving God or not, why should "eternity" make God any different in His love, if a loving God doesn't punish the wicked for eternity then that same loving God wouldn't allow or will innocent little girls to be raped and murdered. Time means nothing to God, God is not bound by time, there is no time in God's realm so time really is of no significance to God so why are you judging an eternal punishment God by a finite argument of time?
Last edited by Fundamentalist; 11-12-2009 at 08:54 AM..
I don't base the whole council of God on 2 points. I base the whole council of God based on all of scripture. I see all that in scripture. I can only go from scripture, not what I believe or think, or is my opinion. I look at scripture and try to harmonize God based off scripture. I don't harmonize scripture based on what I think God is.
You talk the talk, but yet you've already contradicted scripture based on these 2 simple points. The fact of the matter is you can understand God based on these 2 simple points, because God is not contradictory. Any further study on the whole council of God will only reaffirm these two points.
1. God desires to save all mankind
2. God achieves what He desires.
Your "yes and no" answer for point #2 is really a "no" answer. You do not believe God achieves his desires.
Actually God calls whom he wants - and then it IS up to us....
HK
If this is true there is no hope for me .
Col 2
13When i was dead in my sins and in the uncircumcision of my sinful nature,[b] God made me alive with Christ. He forgave me all of my sins, 14having canceled the written code, with its regulations, that was against me and that stood opposed to me; he took it away, nailing it to the cross. 15And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross.
Eph 2
13But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been "brought'near through the blood of Christ.
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