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Old 07-14-2009, 07:21 PM
 
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Is there a meaningful difference between a Calvinist who declares that God has chosen some to receive eternal life and a Universalist who declares that God has chosen all to receive eternal life?

Either way God has chosen people to have eternal life whether they want to or not. The only difference lies in the number.

By the way has anyone ever meet a Calvinist who did not think they were one of the chosen few?

Actually Calvinists save themselves. First they say that if you believe unto salvation God has chosen you - then they say "I believe". Some would call that circular reasoning but a Calvinist calls it - FAITH!

At least the Universalists are gracious enough to include others in their club. Wrong, but gracious....

HK
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Old 07-14-2009, 07:25 PM
 
Location: Naptowne, Alaska
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As people...God gives us eternal life...either in heaven or hell right? And through our actions while living here on earth, we basically determine which place we spend eternity?
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Old 07-14-2009, 07:32 PM
 
4,655 posts, read 5,038,975 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harold Kupp View Post
Is there a meaningful difference between a Calvinist who declares that God has chosen some to receive eternal life and a Universalist who declares that God has chosen all to receive eternal life?

Either way God has chosen people to have eternal life whether they want to or not. The only difference lies in the number.

By the way has anyone ever meet a Calvinist who did not think they were one of the chosen few?

Actually Calvinists save themselves. First they say that if you believe unto salvation God has chosen you - then they say "I believe". Some would call that circular reasoning but a Calvinist calls it - FAITH!

At least the Universalists are gracious enough to include others in their club. Wrong, but gracious....

HK

I struggled with that for a long time. In fact, I posted that same exact question on a message board.

Bottom line is that as I study scripture, I find that God does what he wants with human beings, and it's not up to us.
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Old 07-14-2009, 07:36 PM
 
988 posts, read 1,895,393 times
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Originally Posted by kdbrich View Post
I struggled with that for a long time. In fact, I posted that same exact question on a message board.

Bottom line is that as I study scripture, I find that God does what he wants with human beings, and it's not up to us.

Actually God calls whom he wants - and then it IS up to us....


HK
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Old 07-14-2009, 07:46 PM
 
4,655 posts, read 5,038,975 times
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Originally Posted by Harold Kupp View Post
Actually God calls whom he wants - and then it IS up to us....


HK

Did the apostle Paul have a choice? Peter? Daniel in the OT? Joseph when he was sold into slavery then became prime minister of Egypt? Moses?
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Old 07-14-2009, 07:55 PM
 
Location: God's Country
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Originally Posted by Rance View Post
As people...God gives us eternal life...either in heaven or hell right? And through our actions while living here on earth, we basically determine which place we spend eternity?
Not by our actions, but our choice (what we do about Jesus) determines where we spend eternity.
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Old 07-14-2009, 07:57 PM
 
Location: Naptowne, Alaska
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But doesn't making that choice lead to our actions? Good or bad?

I don't know...I guess a person can choose not to accept the Lord and still do good. And a person can accept the Lord and still do bad.
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Old 07-14-2009, 08:09 PM
 
Location: NC
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Hi, Jesus will subject all to Himself so that God may be all in all. (1 Cor. 15) Because He chooses all, all will eventually choose Him. All who have "chosen" Him today have because of His work. It is about God's choice and power and He is able and will win all hearts to Himself. Every knee will bow and every tongue will confess/proclaim Him to the glory of God the Father. This is a promise and not an option. Calvinists from I understand believe that God has predetermined the majority to everlasting hell, with no hope for salvation. God bless.

Last edited by ShanaBrown; 07-14-2009 at 08:24 PM..
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Old 07-14-2009, 08:13 PM
 
5,925 posts, read 6,903,343 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harold Kupp View Post
Either way God has chosen people to have eternal life whether they want to or not. The only difference lies in the number.
I see your point, but actually one of the passages that describes the concept of universalism has nothing to do with being saved as a result of how you have described it here.

Phl 2:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of [things] in heaven, and [things] in earth, and [things] under the earth;
Phl 2:11 And [that] every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ [is] Lord, to the glory of God the Father.


It is the difference in how God is seen through this passage. "To the Glory of God the Father" means different things to different people. To me, God is bigger than to stand there like an abusive parent glorifying himself in the persons realization of eternal doom.

This is the moment of realization of how good God really is and confessing and understanding they are saved, everyone will receive this in due time.
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Old 07-14-2009, 08:32 PM
 
Location: God's Country
22,995 posts, read 34,256,841 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rance View Post
But doesn't making that choice lead to our actions? Good or bad?

I don't know...I guess a person can choose not to accept the Lord and still do good. And a person can accept the Lord and still do bad.
It should, but there are plenty of good descent people who haven't accepted Jesus as their Savior. Hell will have a lot of those nice descent people in it.
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