Matthew 7:21 Puts the Lie to Universal Reconcilation (beliefs, scriptures, Jesus Christ)

[rodgertutt]

Originally Posted by thrillobyte

Wouldn't this be in contradiction what Scott advocates in his rebuttal to Matt Slick in which he say that satan ultimately will be reconciled to God? If so, then there would be no reason for satan to be placed beneath our feet, nor would we have any impulse to retaliate against him, since he would be made a believer with us, possibly restored to his former position as cherub-in-chief?

I expect that Satan will probably be the last to become a believer in Jesus as His Saviour because God is using Satan in the negative realm to achieve His purposes.

I believe that God will eventually fit every unique individual into His master plan in a positive way that necessitates their unique temporary involvement in evil and suffering that will enable God to manifest, and glorify, and magnify the many facets of His character in a way that uniquely involves that person, and everyone else involved in that person’s life too.

I believe that God has both the ability and the intention to save all fallen creatures from everything from which they need to be saved, and He will not fail to do so, and after God has used the temporary existence of evil and suffering to achieve the purpose for which He allowed them to exist He will then eradicate them both from existence.

The Restitution of All Things: There Is One God; The Lord Our God Is One; All Things Created By God; All Things Created In Christ; All Things Out Of Him; The Unfragmented One; All Things Through Him; All Things Into Him; Restitution
Especially read the very last paragraph on that link.

[TheUnknown67]

Originally Posted by thrillobyte

You see, alison, this is your fleshly, human concept of what is fair and just and not God's. God's ways are far above ours, and when you learn to accept that what we deem is unfair is not, in God's eyes and for His greater good, unfair. As long as we rely on His boundless mercy, we can comprehend that, even though He wills that not all men be saved, He will still be merciful to them. That is a divine mystery we cannot fathom in this world and in our human capacity.

What kind of 'mercy' do you think he will have towards the men he won't save

[thrillobyte]

Originally Posted by Thy Kingdom Come

It doesn't say either "repentance" or "no repentence" does it? Where does the presumption of no repentence within judgment come from? There are numerous examples of repentence from within judgment throughout scripture. How is it possible to receive few stripes when Jesus comes to send fire on the earth without repentence?

You immediately place yourself on a slippery slope, Kingdom, the second you start saying, "Well, if the scripture excludes this, it must be okay to believe Paul meant to include it."

[Phazelwood]

Originally Posted by thrillobyte

You see, alison, this is your fleshly, human concept of what is fair and just and not God's..

Do you say this understanding you may be one of the damned with no solid way to demonstrate that you are not?

[thrillobyte]

Originally Posted by Phazelwood

It comes down to trust. Do we trust God? I trust God to reconcile all things and do not require a context or an essay.

Is there scripture that implies otherwise? Yes, but who drives the implication, mans perspective or scripture? God reconciles all to himself so thats where they go when they are destroyed.

What I am hearing, Phaze is, "I trust [my human instincts about]God and I don't require [scripture] to validate them. (maybe you mean human analysis via essays, not scripture, in which case I agree--scripture is above all human exegesis). Is there scripture that implies [ET]? Yes."

[Thy Kingdom Come]

Originally Posted by thrillobyte

You immediately place yourself on a slippery slope, Kingdom, the second you start saying, "Well, if the scripture excludes this, it must be okay to believe Paul meant to include it."

I'm not including or excluding repentance based on what Paul was silent about. Let me try it another way. It doesn't say "It is appointed to man once to die, and before this, the judgement." right? So what does that say about the timing of this judgment?

• Zephenia 3:8 Therefore wait upon me, saith the Lord, until the day when I rise up for a witness: because my judgment shall be on the gatherings of the nations, to draw to me kings, to pour out upon them all my fierce anger: for the whole earth shall be consumed with the fire of my jealousy. 9 For then will I turn to the peoples a tongue for her generation, that all may call on the name of the Lord, to serve him under one yoke.

How is it a slipperly slope to believe that those not doing the LORD's will will recieve either:
a) many stripes
b) few stripes

Eternal torment is not many or few stripes. It's infinite stripes. It is casting off forever.

The LORD will not cast off "forever" the children of men for their sin. That is what Lamenations 3 says. I believe that!

God says that when thy judgments are in the earth ("After this the judgment") the inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness. I believe that!

• Isaiah 26:9 With my soul have I desired thee in the night; yea, with my spirit within me will I seek thee early: for when thy judgments [are] in the earth, the inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness. 10 Let favour be shewed to the wicked, yet will he not learn righteousness: in the land of uprightness will he deal unjustly, and will not behold the majesty of the LORD.

ET says that when God's judgments are in the earth, tough luck!

[rodgertutt]

Originally Posted by Phazelwood

Do you say this understanding you may be one of the damned with no solid way to demonstrate that you are not?

Etymology of the Word "Damn"
Etymology of the Word Damn

[thrillobyte]

Originally Posted by alisonminnie

What kind of 'mercy' do you think he will have towards the men he won't save

I do believe they will receive mercy to whatever degree they deserve it, but certainly every last person not born again will not end up frying in hell for eternity. As I stated, there are countless billions who have never heard the gospel, or who heard it presented so badly that they rejected it, not having the full story. Certainly, God will not fry them for eternity, but they will not enter heaven. How could they?

[thrillobyte]

Originally Posted by Phazelwood

Do you say this understanding you may be one of the damned with no solid way to demonstrate that you are not?

That's a rhetorical question, Phaze. I cannot answer it.

[Phazelwood]

Originally Posted by thrillobyte

That's a rhetorical question, Phaze. I cannot answer it.

Of course not, because the doctrine offers you nothing that can assure you of anything.