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No, this universalist doesn't any other translation for those verses. I take them exactly for what they say at their face values. Nobody in Christ continues to have their former spirit. So obviously all in Christ will no longer have their departed spirits and those spirits will not rise again. So it is no wonder they are forgotten because if they never rise there is no need to remember them.
Remember that everyone in Christ must be dead to themselves. In other words their OLD Man must have perished so that the new man (Christ) is their sustaining Spirit.
Paul
Dead to themselves is a tad bit different than punished and destroyed. Nice try though.
Dead to themselves is a tad bit different than punished and destroyed. Nice try though.
Being punished, being perished and being destroyed by God does not mean one can not be saved by God.
The Blessing
Deuteronomy 28:1 And it shall come to pass, if thou shalt hearken diligently unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to observe and to do all his commandments which I command thee this day, that the LORD thy God will set thee on high above all nations of the earth: 2 And all these blessings shall come on thee, and overtake thee, if thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God. 3 Blessed shalt thou be in the city, and blessed shalt thou be in the field. 4 Blessed shall be the fruit of thy body, and the fruit of thy ground, and the fruit of thy cattle, the increase of thy kine, and the flocks of thy sheep. 5 Blessed shall be thy basket and thy store. 6 Blessed shalt thou be when thou comest in, and blessed shalt thou be when thou goest out
The Curse -- Punishment, Perished, Destroyed
Deuteronomy 28:15 But it shall come to pass, if thou wilt not hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to observe to do all his commandments and his statutes which I command thee this day; that all these curses shall come upon thee, and overtake thee: 16 Cursed shalt thou be in the city, and cursed shalt thou be in the field. 17 Cursed shall be thy basket and thy store. 18 Cursed shall be the fruit of thy body, and the fruit of thy land, the increase of thy kine, and the flocks of thy sheep. 19 Cursed shalt thou be when thou comest in, and cursed shalt thou be when thou goest out.
Deuteronomy 28:20 The LORD shall send upon thee cursing, vexation, and rebuke, in all that thou settest thine hand unto for to do, until thou be destroyed, and until thou perish quickly; because of the wickedness of thy doings, whereby thou hast forsaken me. 21 The LORD shall make the pestilence cleave unto thee, until he have consumed thee from off the land, whither thou goest to possess it. 22 The LORD shall smite thee with a consumption, and with a fever, and with an inflammation, and with an extreme burning, and with the sword, and with blasting, and with mildew; and they shall pursue thee until thou perish. 23 And thy heaven that is over thy head shall be brass, and the earth that is under thee shall be iron. 24 The LORD shall make the rain of thy land powder and dust: from heaven shall it come down upon thee, until thou be destroyed.
Deuteronomy 28:35 The LORD shall smite thee in the knees, and in the legs, with a sore botch that cannot be healed, from the sole of thy foot unto the top of thy head. 36 The LORD shall bring thee, and thy king which thou shalt set over thee, unto a nation which neither thou nor thy fathers have known; and there shalt thou serve other gods, wood and stone. 37 And thou shalt become an astonishment, a proverb, and a byword, among all nations whither the LORD shall lead thee.
Deuteronomy 28:45 Moreover all these curses shall come upon thee, and shall pursue thee, and overtake thee, till thou be destroyed; because thou hearkenedst not unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to keep his commandments and his statutes which he commanded thee: 46 And they shall be upon thee for a sign and for a wonder, and upon thy seed for ever. 47 Because thou servedst not the LORD thy God with joyfulness, and with gladness of heart, for the abundance of all things; 48 Therefore shalt thou serve thine enemies which the LORD shall send against thee, in hunger, and in thirst, and in nakedness, and in want of all things: and he shall put a yoke of iron upon thy neck, until he have destroyed thee.
Deuteronomy 28:51 And he shall eat the fruit of thy cattle, and the fruit of thy land, until thou be destroyed: which also shall not leave thee either corn, wine, or oil, or the increase of thy kine, or flocks of thy sheep, until he have destroyed thee.
Deuteronomy 28:52 And he shall besiege thee in all thy gates, until thy high and fenced walls come down, wherein thou trustedst, throughout all thy land: and he shall besiege thee in all thy gates throughout all thy land, which the LORD thy God hath given thee.
Deuteronomy 28:58 If thou wilt not observe to do all the words of this law that are written in this book, that thou mayest fear this glorious and fearful name, THE LORD THY GOD; 59 Then the LORD will make thy plagues wonderful, and the plagues of thy seed, even great plagues, and of long continuance, and sore sicknesses, and of long continuance.
Deuteronomy 28:61 Also every sickness, and every plague, which is not written in the book of this law, them will the LORD bring upon thee, until thou be destroyed. 62 And ye shall be left few in number, whereas ye were as the stars of heaven for multitude; because thou wouldest not obey the voice of the LORD thy God. 63 And it shall come to pass, that as the LORD rejoiced over you to do you good, and to multiply you; so the LORD will rejoice over you to destroy you, and to bring you to nought; and ye shall be plucked from off the land whither thou goest to possess it.
Salvation from within all the above curses
Deuteronomy 30:1 And it shall come to pass, when all these things are come upon thee, the blessing and the curse, which I have set before thee, and thou shalt call them to mind among all the nations, whither the LORD thy God hath driven thee, 2 And shalt return unto the LORD thy God, and shalt obey his voice according to all that I command thee this day, thou and thy children, with all thine heart, and with all thy soul; 3 That then the LORD thy God will turn thy captivity, and have compassion upon thee, and will return and gather thee from all the nations, whither the LORD thy God hath scattered thee. 4 If any of thine be driven out unto the outmost parts of heaven, from thence will the LORD thy God gather thee, and from thence will he fetch thee: 5 And the LORD thy God will bring thee into the land which thy fathers possessed, and thou shalt possess it; and he will do thee good, and multiply thee above thy fathers. 6 And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.
Being punished, being perished and being destroyed by God does not mean one can not be saved by God.
No, and it also doesn't mean God cannot make dogs fly either. After all, God is God. Our Creator.
This is circular logic. If God destroys something and wipes ALL memory out of them destroyed, why would God then turn around and revive the memory after He has destroyed it?
No, and it also doesn't mean God cannot make dogs fly either. After all, God is God. Our Creator.
This is circular logic. If God destroys something and wipes ALL memory out of them destroyed, why would God then turn around and revive the memory after He has destroyed it?
There is no circular logic. Your claim is God does not save people He has destroyed in judgment. I just showed you that God will save those he has punished, destroyed, and caused to perish in judgment, if they return to God from within that state.
God does not revive what He destroyed. Those whom God destroyed trusted in their own gods. Those whom God revives trust in the One True God.
There is no circular logic. Your claim is God does not save people He has destroyed in judgment. I just showed you that God will save those he has punished, destroyed, and caused to perish in judgment, if they return to God from within that state.
God does not revive what He destroyed. Those whom God destroyed trust in their own gods. Those whom God revives trust in the One True God.
but why don't you try refuting the verses that contradict your beliefs?
but why don't you try refuting the verses that contradict your beliefs?
Don't know what you mean fundy... hotinaz gave a verse he thinks contradicts my beliefs and I showed why I don't believe it contradicts my beliefs. So am I not doing what you just said?
Don't know what you mean fundy... hotinaz gave a verse he thinks contradicts my beliefs and I showed why I don't believe it contradicts my beliefs. So am I not doing what you just said?
There is no circular logic. Your claim is God does not save people He has destroyed in judgment. I just showed you that God will save those he has punished, destroyed, and caused to perish in judgment, if they return to God from within that state.
God does not revive what He destroyed. Those whom God destroyed trusted in their own gods. Those whom God revives trust in the One True God.
Ok, let's look at this from another angle.
God destroys those people, right?
Their life, and their spirit as well as their memories, even to God, are destroyed, right?
Pray tell me when these people, who are dead and destroyed as well as their memory, will have some "hidden" chance, to remember their evil and turn to the Lord, when they have no memory and no life? How can they? They no longer exist.
The ONLY way you can do this, is to, once again, change the meanings of the words to suit your beliefs.
God destroys those people, right?
Their life, and their spirit as well as their memories, even to God, are destroyed, right?
Pray tell me when these people, who are dead and destroyed as well as their memory, will have some "hidden" chance, to remember their evil and turn to the Lord, when they have no memory and no life? How can they? They no longer exist.
The same could be said about Deut chapter 28 which says they will be destroyed, perish, consumed, blotted out from under heaven etc. Yet Deut 30 shows that not to be the case. You are assuming a certain type of death & destruction (annhilation).
I didn't change the meaning of words. I showed an EXAMPLE of those words being applied to people who will be saved if they return to God from within a state of perished, destroyed, etc.
The same could be said about Deut chapter 28 which says they will be destroyed, perish, consumed, blotted out from under heaven etc. Yet Deut 30 shows that not to be the case. You are assuming a certain type of death & destruction (annhilation).
I didn't change the meaning of words. I showed an EXAMPLE of those words being applied to people who will be saved if they return to God from within a state of perished, destroyed, etc.
Actuallly, you need to read Deut in context. He is talking about Israel, not an indivdual person.
Here is a verse for you:
I will seek that which was lost, and bring again that which was driven away, and will bind up [that which was] broken, and will strengthen that which was sick: but I will destroy the fat and the strong; I will feed them with judgment.
Now we know who did these things, as it was fulfilled in Jesus. But it also says He will destroy the fat and strong. How? By His judgment. He will feed it to them, until they are no more. A Consuming Fire, remember?
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