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Old 07-23-2009, 07:17 AM
 
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Some of the most caring people in the world aren't Christians.

"I am a Japanese national and my country is atheistic and materialistic. Most of our population have very little understanding of Jesus. After World War II, Japan was in great need. There were many children without parents. Fortunately some very caring people arose to start homes for these children. One woman I knew of was very selfless, giving and loving. She spent her whole life caring for these children. Many people didn't respect her for doing this but because of the love in her heart, she continued helping. I don't believe she was a Christian. Here's my question. There are many Christians who don't ever spend their life as she did. If one looked at their deeds, this woman would look like the Christian. They simply had an opportunity to hear the message of Christ and she didn't. How will God judge her?
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Old 07-23-2009, 07:26 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Soljia View Post
Grace to You (John MacArthur) - Today's Broadcast

Some of the most caring people in the world aren't Christians.

"I am a Japanese national and my country is atheistic and materialistic. Most of our population have very little understanding of Jesus. After World War II, Japan was in great need. There were many children without parents. Fortunately some very caring people arose to start homes for these children. One woman I knew of was very selfless, giving and loving. She spent her whole life caring for these children. Many people didn't respect her for doing this but because of the love in her heart, she continued helping. I don't believe she was a Christian. Here's my question. There are many Christians who don't ever spend their life as she did. If one looked at their deeds, this woman would look like the Christian. They simply had an opportunity to hear the message of Christ and she didn't. How will God judge her?
God will judge her by her works, just like God judges all people.

God is not a meanie.

Its good news.
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Old 07-23-2009, 07:35 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Soljia View Post
How will God judge her?
God will judge her righteously through Love. And Yes, that is Good News, not the News of Men.

The spirit of her deeds is more important than the religious traditions she may or may not have held.
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Old 07-23-2009, 09:17 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Phazelwood View Post
God will judge her righteously through Love. And Yes, that is Good News, not the News of Men.

The spirit of her deeds is more important than the religious traditions she may or may not have held.
Amen.

Religious traditions says you have to do this to be saved, you have to say this to be saved, you have to believe what we believe to be saved.

But what does scripture say? We are saved by God's grace, not by our own works. There is nothing we can do to save our selves. NOTHING.

Yet our works are judged. EVERYONE will be judged by the works they have done.

Romans 2:5 But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God's wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed. 6 God "will give to each person according to what he has done." 7 To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give [eonian] life. 8 But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. 9 There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; 10 but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. 11 For God does not show favoritism.


See, we are all judged by what we do. And for those who do evil they will receive trouble and distress. Who among us has not done evil? NO ONE. But of course some do more evil than others. They will receive greater trouble and distress. And of course we see this in the world around us.

Important point: Don't confuse eonian (sometimes translated as "eternal") life with salvation. Eonian life is simply to know God.

John 17:2 Now this is [eonian] life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.

Last edited by legoman; 07-23-2009 at 09:30 AM..
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Old 07-23-2009, 09:18 AM
 
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OP: Read Romans chapter 9. That will answer your question.
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Old 07-23-2009, 09:22 AM
 
Location: God's Country
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Romans 1:19-20
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Old 07-23-2009, 09:29 AM
 
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Originally Posted by I LOVE NORTH CAROLINA View Post
Romans 1:19-20
What do you think these verses mean ILNC?

Romans 1:19 They know the truth about God because he has made it obvious to them. 20 For ever since the world was created, people have seen the earth and sky. Through everything God made, they can clearly see his invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature. So they have no excuse for not knowing God.


Does that mean people know the gospel without hearing?
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Old 07-23-2009, 09:36 AM
 
Location: God's Country
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Originally Posted by legoman View Post
What do you think these verses mean ILNC?

Romans 1:19 They know the truth about God because he has made it obvious to them. 20 For ever since the world was created, people have seen the earth and sky. Through everything God made, they can clearly see his invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature. So they have no excuse for not knowing God.


Does that mean people know the gospel without hearing?
It means just what it says, all people have an inner sense of what God requires.
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Old 07-23-2009, 09:49 AM
 
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Originally Posted by I LOVE NORTH CAROLINA View Post
It means just what it says, all people have an inner sense of what God requires.
I don't think it says that. I think it says all people should know that God exists by evidence of creation.

Romans 1:19 They know the truth about God because he has made it obvious to them. 20 For ever since the world was created, people have seen the earth and sky. Through everything God made, they can clearly see his invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature. So they have no excuse for not knowing God.

But how would that indicate any part of the gospel? Specifically that Jesus died on the cross to save us from sin, and Jesus took away the sins of the world. How does one know that by any inner sense, especially if they never heard of Jesus or the cross?

I think Romans 1:19-20 gets terribly misused. Its only talking about evidence of the existence of God. We are specifically told to preach the good news so that people will know about it. How will they know if no one preaches it?

Romans 10:14 How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone
preaching to them?

What you are implying is that they should be able to call on the name of the Lord by evidence of creation only, but Romans 10:14 makes it clear that people need to hear the gospel in order to do that.
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Old 07-23-2009, 12:32 PM
 
Location: God's Country
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Originally Posted by legoman View Post
I don't think it says that. I think it says all people should know that God exists by evidence of creation.

Romans 1:19 They know the truth about God because he has made it obvious to them. 20 For ever since the world was created, people have seen the earth and sky. Through everything God made, they can clearly see his invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature. So they have no excuse for not knowing God.

But how would that indicate any part of the gospel? Specifically that Jesus died on the cross to save us from sin, and Jesus took away the sins of the world. How does one know that by any inner sense, especially if they never heard of Jesus or the cross?

I think Romans 1:19-20 gets terribly misused. Its only talking about evidence of the existence of God. We are specifically told to preach the good news so that people will know about it. How will they know if no one preaches it?

Romans 10:14 How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone
preaching to them?

What you are implying is that they should be able to call on the name of the Lord by evidence of creation only, but Romans 10:14 makes it clear that people need to hear the gospel in order to do that.
Yes of course people need to hear about the Gospel. But God said in verse 20 "they have no excuse whatsoever for not knowing God". No one will be able to stand before God and say I didn't know. I believe God is fair and just and He will judge everyone fairly.
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