U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Old 07-25-2009, 11:56 AM
Location: The A
1,876 posts, read 2,019,698 times
Reputation: 47


jn 12:

26If any man serve me, let him follow me; and where I am, there shall also my servant be: if any man serve me, him will my Father honour.

27Now is my soul troubled; and what shall I say? Father, save me from this hour: but for this cause came I unto this hour.

28Father, glorify thy name. Then came there a voice from heaven, saying, I have both glorified it, and will glorify it again.

29The people therefore, that stood by, and heard it, said that it thundered: others said, An angel spake to him.

30Jesus answered and said, This voice came not because of me, but for your sakes.

31Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.

32And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me. 33This he said, signifying what death he should die.

Jesus here makes a profound statement here of the irresisitable power of His Cross work. For it is by means of this work for sinners, elect sinners may

i add, that we become servants of His vs 26

paul speaks of this power of the cross as the means of which he had been crucified to the world..gal 6:

14But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.

You see it was by the power of the cross, paul was enbled to pick up his cross and follow christ.

.paul didnt glory in freewill, or his choice to follow christ, but in the cross of our Lord Jesus christ, and the power of his resurrection..phil 3:

10That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;

We must take his death and resurrection as a unified whole in the gospel truth 1 cor 15:

1Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;

2By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.

3For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

4And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

So Jesus was saying, that when He is Lifted up from the earth, signifying his death, he also eyed his resurrection too..and because of this lifting up, he would draw [make obedient to the faith] all men [nationalities] to him..

Jesus had in mind the gentiles, when he made this statement..for if we look preceeding this declaration, that there were greeks attending the festivities..vs

20And there were certain Greeks among them that came up to worship at the feast:

wouldnt this be odd for a jewish festivity ?

But in any case, notice Jesus words in vs 31

31Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.

Why is this recorded ? Because hitherto, the gentile world had been under satans darkness, for God didnt enlighten many gentiles of the worship of God, there were a few exceptions, but as a general rule He suffered them to walk in darkness, and outside of the covenant promises, being without hope and God in the world..

eph 2:

11Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;

12That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

acts 17:

30And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent:

but now was the Judgement of this world, as it regarded the gentile world..notice isa 42:

1Behold my servant[The christ of God], whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.

2He shall not cry, nor lift up, nor cause his voice to be heard in the street.

3A bruised reed shall he not break, and the smoking flax shall he not quench: he shall bring forth judgment unto truth.

4He shall not fail nor be discouraged, till he have set judgment in the earth: and the isles shall wait for his law.

5Thus saith God the LORD, he that created the heavens, and stretched them out; he that spread forth the earth, and that which cometh out of it; he that giveth breath unto the people upon it, and spirit to them that walk therein: 6I the LORD have called thee in righteousness, and will hold thine hand, and will keep thee, and give thee for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles;

So this is what Jesus means in his statement , that now is the Judgment of this world, and the prince of this world be cast out..This is an announcement of satans defeat and overthrow of His power over the gentile elect world in specific, and of course all elect vessels, jews and gentile in general..

So, Jesus, foreseeing the fruit of his work of the cross, uttwer the words, all men shall be drawn to me, meaning made obedient by His power..

jn 12:

23And Jesus answered them, saying, The hour is come, that the Son of man should be glorified. 24Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit

Jesus here is speaking about the fruit of His death.. His spiritual seed isa 53:

10Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed [ or fruit], he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall
prosper in his hand.

His fruit or offspring..remember offspring are called fruit too..ps 127:

3Lo, children are an heritage of the LORD: and the fruit of the womb is his reward.

Some may object and say, well thats talking about the women..why sure, but she needed the seed of the man for this to be fulfilled, its still his seed in her womb that is the fruit thereof, and on top of that, by divine design, they are one..

and as the fruit or the offspring are their reward from the LORD, so are believers in Jesus christ, the reward to Christ for His work of the cross..

phil 1:

29For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ[as his fruit], not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;

Now, Jesus christ, through his ministers, causes the elect of the gentiles to be obedient to the faith of the gospel..

lets look at romans 1:

5By whom we have received grace and apostleship, for obedience to the faith among all nations, for his name:


26But now is made manifest, and by the scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith

Now here is a little or should I say big secret..rom 15:

17I have therefore whereof I may glory through Jesus Christ in those things which pertain to God.

18For I will not dare to speak of any of those things which Christ hath not wrought by me, to make the Gentiles obedient, by word and deed,

You see that ? That Jesus christ wrought obedience of the gentiles to the faith, he made them obedient..

Paul say, he [Jesus christ] wrought by me..now what is the word wrought mean ?

its the greek word:

to perform, accomplish, achieve

Jesus christ perfermed, accomplished the obedience of the gentiles..!! How ? Through His cross work..paul takes no credit for this, for he said in the verse proceeding:

whereof I may glory through Jesus Christ in those things which pertain to God.

His glory is in and through Jesus christ..So its by the power of the cross, that men and women of every ethnic group, become obedient to the gospel faith..not of works, lest any man should boast..

The antichrist gospel teaches that The cross of christ is no more than a possiblity of salvation, it depends on man wether it saves ..oh but what disdain for the power of God, just in order that man may have reason to glory and set the crown of victory on his own head..

I have true faith in christ today, and its because He loved me and gave himself for me..and that saved me...

But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top