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No human has all truth - we are all subject to the filters of interpretation and upbringing and being in the flesh (with its lusts) pride, greed, selfishness. Both of you are subject to being human - we are all fallible.
To me I don't see it as profitable arguing like this - we are to study the scriptures and see if our interpretation fits scripture. We are not see what scripture fits our interpretation. And not look for how many scriptures we can find that when bent a little or a lot can be fit with other scripture to build doctrines out of.
DO NOT include me in this. I am not the one claiming people are being disobedient. None of what you said applies to me.
Miss Shawn, Christian Universalists believe that Jesus is the only way, and no other way. There are many examples of God influencing the wills of people. If all are to be made subject to Him, then someone's will is going to be sovereign and someone's will is going to be made subject. We see this the declaration that all will one day confess/proclaim/ sing praises to Him and bow in worship before Him. Here is an example of God having an effect on and changing the the will of people:
Zephaniah 3
8 "Therefore wait for Me," declares the LORD,
"For the day when I rise up as a witness.
Indeed, My decision is to gather nations,
To assemble kingdoms,
To pour out on them My indignation,
All My burning anger;
For all the earth will be devoured
By the fire of My zeal.
9. "For then I will give to the peoples purified lips,
That all of them may call on the name of the LORD,
To serve Him shoulder to shoulder
I believe that the choice that Judas made was in the plan of God. Jesus knew from the beginning who would betray Him. God bless.
These scripture seem to indicate the point you're trying to get across, Shana
Joh 13:18 I speak not of you all: I know whom I have chosen: but that the scripture may be fulfilled, He that eateth bread with me hath lifted up his heel against me.
Joh 17:12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.
Some people are disobeint to the Gospel of Jesus christ, because they have been appointed unto it..1 pet 2
7Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner, 8And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.
Wow! beloved57 that is a great verse! I never noticed that before. They were appointed to being disobedient. Very good!
So it must be that those who teach that God will only save just so many humans that they were appointed to being disobedient.
Wow! beloved57 that is a great verse! I never noticed that before. They were appointed to being disobedient. Very good!
So it must be that those who teach that God will only save just so many humans that they were appointed to being disobedient.
LOL.....Ya according to your "bible" I am very scriptural my friend. God ONLY saves those that BELIEVE....where in what I said, is being disobedient? hmmmmmmm?????????
Eusebius, I notice that most UR's quotes from Paul come from 1 & 2 Timothy, written in Paul's later years. He seems to have soften his stance over the decades on hell-fire, removing himself from the earlier positions he held that sinners would suffer the wrath of God for their sins. In this he appears to have become double-minded, when all the epistles are taken together. Consequently, I'm uncomfortable reading him, when trying to determine the truth or fallacy of ET. Anyone else get this feeling of discomfort over Paul's teachings on UR?
No, Paul never changed his stance on what is going to happen to all mankind.
In Romans he taught, by a revelation from the risen Christ that all mankind would be made righteous and have their lives justified (Romans 3:22; 5:18,19).
In 1 Corinthians he taught all mankind would be subjected to Christ and then God would be All in all (1 Cor.15:22-28).
Quote:
Unfortunately, scripture contradicts scripture all over the place--hence, these raging debates with no resolution in sight. To everyone's credit, you all have solid scriptural foundation for your various positions. I find that commendable--and scary. We may all be searching out the mysteries, but I have serious doubts will get any of the answers until we stand in eternity. Satan and his minions have done a thoroughly excellent job of polluting God's Word so effectively that the real truths may never be uncovered in this life. So be it. The search goes on....and on...and on..and on....
Only a poor translation contradicts itself. Try reading the Concordant Literal New Testament.
Quote:
When the bunch of us stand before God, 66.6666% of us will be wrong--33.3333% will be right. I hope the Lord has mercy on the 66.6666% who are wrong if the ET's turn out to be the ones who were right all along because the the other 66.6666% will have led an awful lot of souls down the path to eternal torment. Of course if the UR's turn out to be right we're all lying in a bed or roses without a worry in the world--this world and the one to come.
It is impossible for the ET's to be right. There are just way too many Scriputres against their position of their misconstrued passages.
Actually if the URists are right, and they are, the ETers will have to have their works burnt up.
LOL.....Ya according to your "bible" I am very scriptural my friend. God ONLY saves those that BELIEVE....where in what I said, is being disobedient? hmmmmmmm?????????
See, Fundy, that is your problem. You say "God ONLY saves those that BELIEVE." But the Bible does not say "ONLY those that BELIEVE." It says:
" . . . especially them that believe." "Especially" does not mean "ONLY."
The Bible does not say:
"God is the saviour of all mankind, ONLY them that BELIEVE" but says: "God is the Saviour of all mankind, ESPECIALLY them that BELIEVE.
When Paul wrote:
2Ti 4:13 When you come, bring the traveling cloak which I left in Troas with Carpus, and the scrolls, especially the vellums."
Timothy did not think Paul wanted "ONLY the vellums."
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