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Old 08-03-2009, 06:46 AM
 
Location: Canada
4,072 posts, read 1,535,819 times
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[quote=Phazelwood;10081731]
Quote:
Originally Posted by alanMolstad View Post
Yes, Satan was a real angel of God...
quote]


The reference to lucifer in some translations is not about satan.
Hi Paul, leaving aside the lucifer scriptures we still see in the 1 book of Enoch these angels falling and Jesus said He saw satan falling as lightning.
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Old 08-03-2009, 07:47 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thy Kingdom Come View Post
Ok, so we have a somewhat different concept of what a spirit is. I realize a spirit relates to thought, but I do not think every individual thought represents a different spirit. Rather I think a spirit is a way of thinking rather than an individual thought of hunger, pain, or discomfort.


For example:
  • Romans 8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
Someone who "minds the things of the flesh" has a carnal mind. Their mind is consumed with things of the flesh. That's a carnal spirit. A way of thinking, an attitude. Contrast that with Jesus getting hungry every day and having a thought to get some food. That's not a carnal spirit or minding the things of the flesh. It's not a way of thinking or an attitude. It's just an impluse from his body to his mind.
Well your comparing a whole with a part in my opinion. But yes your correct it is attitude and character but a character is defined by even smaller parts. There is only BODY, and SPIRIT. Body is dead without the Spirit so obviously hunger must be part of the Spirit.

Paul
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Old 08-03-2009, 07:55 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pneuma View Post
Paul, your still going in circles brother.

I agree Jesus was tempted by the carnal mind, but that carnal mind obviously came from WITHOUT not from within Him else Jesus had a carnal mind.

So as portrayed in scripture satan (spirit being) (who has a carnal mind) tempts Jesus from WITHOUT and leaves when Jesus tells him to get lost.

Again brother don't do away with one layer of scripture because God gave you another layer to see, use the other layer to add to what you had already been given.

I see the other layer you are speaking of Paul and agree with in, but NOT according to ALL scriptural reference to satan. We need to learn to distiguish between the two.

Paul now matter how you try to make all scriptural reference of satan to be nothing but the carnal mind you will always fail with me because I have been in his (satans) presence, I know for a fact he is a real spirit being.


And it is on that point you will fail with many others who have come in direct contact with the spirit being called satan.

Not only will you fail with them because they have had direct contact with this spirit being, they will reject the other layer you are putting forth because you state satan is ONLY the carnal mind.

Thus a truth (canal mind=satan) is disbeleived by a lack of understanding on your part that satan is also a spirit being.

When you realise this brother you will not have to go through gymnastics to understand the scriptures that show forth satan as a being, like the ones in Job, satan falling as lighting, etc.

God bless
Pneuma, I can only adhere to what the scriptures are telling me. I attempt to work out contradiction. While there is some perceived contradiction to what I'm saying it only appears in Job that I have found. As for believing that Satan is another stand along being that gives me contradiction on a greater scale and I believe it even contradicts Jesus own words.


Paul
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Old 08-03-2009, 08:00 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pneuma View Post
Paul by that reasoning the gentiles cannot sin either because the law was not given to them.

But we have another scripture that says

Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
But Gentiles have flesh. Satan has flesh? Didn't we already establish that the desire of the flesh is what leads to sin?

Paul
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Old 08-03-2009, 08:35 AM
 
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[quote=pneuma;10081788]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phazelwood View Post

Hi Paul, leaving aside the lucifer scriptures we still see in the 1 book of Enoch these angels falling and Jesus said He saw satan falling as lightning.

Yes, the mormon bible has the complete story of the rebellion is heaven.
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Old 08-03-2009, 09:52 AM
 
Location: Canada
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Originally Posted by trettep View Post
Pneuma, I can only adhere to what the scriptures are telling me. I attempt to work out contradiction. While there is some perceived contradiction to what I'm saying it only appears in Job that I have found. As for believing that Satan is another stand along being that gives me contradiction on a greater scale and I believe it even contradicts Jesus own words.


Paul
They don't contradict if you know how to distingush between them bro.

There is knowledge and than there is the experience of that knowledge.

When satan comes into your room to try to scare the daylights out of you will you than say your just a manifestaion of my carnal mind?

Until you experience something along this lines bro you only have knowledge without the experiance.
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Old 08-03-2009, 09:55 AM
 
Location: Canada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trettep View Post
But Gentiles have flesh. Satan has flesh? Didn't we already establish that the desire of the flesh is what leads to sin?

Paul
Yes satan has flesh too, and the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the feild God had made.
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Old 08-03-2009, 09:56 AM
 
Location: Canada
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[quote=Phazelwood;10083278]
Quote:
Originally Posted by pneuma View Post


Yes, the mormon bible has the complete story of the rebellion is heaven.
wouldn't know about that I was talking about the 1 book of Enoch, although I realise many don't beleive it to be scripture.
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Old 08-03-2009, 10:05 AM
 
Location: Arizona High Desert
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Maybe Eve was the first Schizophrene ?
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Old 08-03-2009, 10:07 AM
 
5,925 posts, read 3,353,894 times
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[quote=pneuma;10084737]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phazelwood View Post

wouldn't know about that I was talking about the 1 book of Enoch, although I realise many don't beleive it to be scripture.

The Mormon bible is not scripture?
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