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Old 08-01-2009, 12:40 PM
 
Location: NC
11,653 posts, read 9,131,764 times
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That he is going to reconcile "all" to Himself? That includes Satan and his followers? All is all! They too have everlasting life? Just curious......
Haven't we been through this before, Betsey? Many who believe in the restoration of all do not believe this includes satan. Many do. Colossians 1 says to me that all are to be reconciled. God bless.
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Old 08-01-2009, 12:41 PM
Status: "God saves ALL" (set 8 days ago)
 
5,946 posts, read 2,965,150 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Betsey Lane View Post
For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

B-e-l-i-e-v-e-t-h in Him should not perish, b-e-l-i-e-v-e-t-h in Him should not perish. God said this.


And who said this.......?

For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth not in him would not perish, but have everlasting life?



It requires something......and that something is BELIEF in HIM! Who's saving them "all" in the end, if not Him? And if they choose to refuse to believe Him now, then who's saving them in they end? Why would they, even then,..... believe?

That he is going to reconcile "all" to Himself? That includes Satan and his followers? All is all! They too have everlasting life? Just curious......
Satan would be annihlated since Satan is a reference to the carnality of man but the rest would be saved because of that destruction.

Paul
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Old 08-01-2009, 12:49 PM
 
5,925 posts, read 3,501,822 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Betsey Lane View Post

That he is going to reconcile "all" to Himself? That includes Satan and his followers? All is all! They too have everlasting life? Just curious......

Why not? we have a God who says something like this.

Lk 22:31 And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired [to have] you, that he may sift [you] as grain:

Sifting grain is a GOOD thing.

So, whatever Satan may be in reality, it will either be purified or converted to another form.

That's just the freakin awesome power of God right there. Who doubts it?
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Old 08-01-2009, 12:56 PM
 
Location: NC
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I agree, Phazelwood. God bless.
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Old 08-01-2009, 08:21 PM
 
Location: Tucson, Arizona
963 posts, read 481,650 times
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When I was a child, I was sort of afraid of my parents. I really didn't do much in rebellion, but mainly because I was afraid of the punishment that would be doled out. They cared for me, provided me all that I needed. Not everything I desired, in my little girl world, but all that I needed. Sometimes when I couldn't have what I wanted I pouted and thought they were mean. The few times I did do something that I knew was wrong or perhaps didn't know until I was punished for it. I felt wronged. I felt they were mean and that I didn't deserve to be punished in just that way.

As I grew older, I learned that the punihsment was so I would learn to respect other people's property, to learn to share what I had, to learn how to get along in the world. To learn how to remain safe as possible. I was an only child so I had no younger siblings to tell aobut our father, about his discipline. But if I would have had some, when I was small I would have said, yeah, mom and dad love us but they can get real mean and do unpleasant things to us if we don't obey. So my vision of them were clouded. When I got older, I realized that the consequences of my actions were to educate me, as previously stated. My view of them changed. I no longer just loved them for what they provided and feared them for what they threatened should I misbehave, but I was grateful to them for providing me with sound boundaries and small consequences.

The picture that I had of them changed and if I had a younger sibling I would then try to tell them that they were not mean-spirited and out to get us after all if we did something bad. I don't know how I could ever go back to thinking of them in the light I viewed them when I was a child. If somehow it came about that they really were mean and if at some point in our life they gave up on one of us and sent that sibling, or me, to a horrifying concentration camp, I would believe I was living in a nightmare and would not be able to love my parents even as much as I did when I was under their rules as a child. I just can't possibly even imagine that the God I have come to know in the last ten years is really the one that the bible school teachers and preachers presented to me as a child.

There is no consequence presented to Adam and Even for sinning other than death. The burning bush Moses saw was surrounded in flames but was not consumed. Not burned at all. Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego did not perish in the fiery furnace, but their bonds were torn. Yes some perished, but Jesus came to save the lost/destroyed. Just as God brought the bones of Ezekiel's vision back to life, so can He bring all those that perished in wrath and shame back to life, heal their wounds, dry their tears and remake them into something new and great.

If I am mistaken about this, then I will have no choice but to accept the sentence God pronounces upon me. But how do you love something less than what you came to see when the purpose of discipline becomes clear? And God does not change. I was lucky to have loving parents. This analogy is limited but my flimsy attempt to show how we progress in our vision of God as we mature. And since I consider myself to lack much maturity, I can't help but believe that in the long run, God will be even more loving and merciful and full of grace than I imagine now.

I just grieve that people are brought into the family and then told that God will hold his anger forever if a child (and that is what we are in comparison to Him, an infant in knowledge) is watching your every move and ready to pounce with all due vengeance if it isn't repented of in x time period. Do I believe that liberty is a license to sin? No, no, and forever no. But we do sin, we should set our sights to the race before us. But if we fall in the middle and die, we won't awake to a merciless judge who consigns us to eternal punishment or death. We surely will face some painful stripping off of our lustful ways, but He will make ALL things new and will be All in ALL. I just can't even imagine the latter scenario. Sorry, I can't go back to the scared, frightened child.
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Old 08-01-2009, 09:31 PM
 
Location: NC
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Amen, Trish. Thank you for sharing your story and your insights. Again, always a blessing. God bless.
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Old 08-02-2009, 01:36 AM
 
Location: Tucson, Arizona
963 posts, read 481,650 times
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ooops, I just realized I said I was an only child. I was the youngest of 4. So I had no younger siblings. Was that some sort of slip? lol I loved all my siblings.
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Old 10-14-2009, 03:28 PM
 
10,740 posts, read 5,187,361 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HotinAZ View Post
Amen ILNC

The God of the Bible desires everyone to call upon Him and the Name of the Only Begotten Son. He desires that you submit to Him, as King of all. He desires that you repent of your evil ways, so that a New Creation can be formed in you, by the working of the Holy Spirit. He desires it SO MUCH that He sent His Son here as a ransom for ALL. To save us from ourselves and our filth. Now that is LOVE! If you choose to deny this, or to live your best lives now, then how can we claim to follow Him who said that the WORLD will HATE us, because they know not the One who sent the Son?

This is the God I serve. If it is not yours, then I wonder what your god looks like.
Dear HotinAZ, I notice your God just can't seem to get anything done He tries to accomplish. He "desires everyone to call upon Him" but, well, according to your theology, Satan is way more powerful than God and wiser than God 'cause he gets more that he desires to get into his "hell" than God gets into His heaven.

You also state:
He desires it SO MUCH that He sent His Son here as a ransom for ALL.

But according to your theology, His ransoming all did actually nothing more than give us a crack at salvation. Pretty pathetic if you ask me. But of course God's Son is going to be just like His Father, right? So if the Father is a failure, why not the Son too?

What I find appalling is your understanding of Christ's ransom for all mankind according to 1 Timothy 2:4-6. Due to Christ ransoming all, "God will have all mankind to be saved." If you go through the whole Bible, which I doubt you will since you are lazy like all other believers and just hear from your pastor what you want to hear, but if you actually did go through the whole Bible and looked at every occurrence of RANSOM you would find out that every animal or human that was ransomed HAD TO BE FREED FROM WHAT EVER WAS BINDING ON THEM!

All mankind are bound by sin and death. Christ ransomed all mankind. All mankind therefore must be freed from sin and death. They will be. There is no turning back. It's too late. The ransom has been made. All have been ransomed.

Sorry if this post bites you in the wrong way or hurts your feelings by being too harsh. That is not my intention. I just want you to learn.

Eusebius
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Old 10-14-2009, 03:34 PM
 
8,990 posts, read 8,812,419 times
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As if we don't have enough universal threads. You bring one from the dead?
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Old 10-14-2009, 03:43 PM
 
10,740 posts, read 5,187,361 times
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You can never have too much of a good thing

But did you learn anything from my response on RANSOM?
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