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Unread 09-16-2009, 01:52 PM
 
Location: Pike Road, Alabama
4,759 posts, read 2,238,075 times
Reputation: 727
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post
I asked in another thread, "If God wanted us to know that His.... well here's the actual quote:

This may help you out some...Malachi 3
The Purifier

1"Behold, I am going to send My messenger, and he will clear the way before Me And the Lord, whom you seek, will suddenly come to His temple; and the messenger of the covenant, in whom you delight, behold, He is coming," says the LORD of hosts.

2"But who can endure the day of His coming? And who can stand when He appears? For He is like a refiner's fire and like fullers' soap. 3"He will sit as a smelter and purifier of silver, and He will purify the sons of Levi and refine them like gold and silver, so that they may present to the LORD offerings in righteousness.


When something is refined, purified and cleansed...is it not totally clean of all that was bad in it and made pure?
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Unread 09-16-2009, 03:22 PM
 
Location: Pike Road, Alabama
4,759 posts, read 2,238,075 times
Reputation: 727
Quote:
Originally Posted by HotinAZ View Post
That would stiill be based upon the free will of those doing the bowing and confessing. In othe rwords, they will do it out of Love, and not because they are told to. God desires everyone, but not everyone desires God. Everyone wants to go to heaven, but not everyone wants God to be there when they get there. Why? They will realize too late, that the crap they believed in, was wrong.
I could add many, many more...but I sincerely would like to know your views on these scriptures if you believe you have freewill and are free to choose whether or not you follow God.

John 6:44 No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day.

John 1:12-13 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

John 3:3-8 Jesus answered and said to him, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God."

4Nicodemus said to Him, "How can a man be born when he is old? He cannot enter a second time into his mother's womb and be born, can he?"
5Jesus answered, "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
6"That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7"Do not be amazed that I said to you, 'You must be born again.' 8"The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit."

Acts 16:14 A woman named Lydia, from the city of Thyatira, a seller of purple fabrics, a worshiper of God, was listening; and the Lord opened her heart to respond to the things spoken by Paul.

Romans 8:28-30 And we know that God causes all things to work together for good to those who love God, to those who are called according to His purpose.

29For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren; 30and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified.

Romans 9:9-18 For this is the word of promise: "AT THIS TIME I WILL COME, AND SARAH SHALL HAVE A SON."

10And not only this, but there was Rebekah also, when she had conceived twins by one man, our father Isaac;
11for though the twins were not yet born and had not done anything good or bad, so that God's purpose according to His choice would stand, not because of works but because of Him who calls,
12it was said to her, "THE OLDER WILL SERVE THE YOUNGER."
13Just as it is written, "JACOB I LOVED, BUT ESAU I HATED."
14What shall we say then? There is no injustice with God, is there? May it never be!
15For He says to Moses, "I WILL HAVE MERCY ON WHOM I HAVE MERCY, AND I WILL HAVE COMPASSION ON WHOM I HAVE COMPASSION."
16So then it does not depend on the man who wills or the man who runs, but on God who has mercy.
17For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, "FOR THIS VERY PURPOSE I RAISED YOU UP, TO DEMONSTRATE MY POWER IN YOU, AND THAT MY NAME MIGHT BE PROCLAIMED THROUGHOUT THE WHOLE EARTH." 18So then He has mercy on whom He desires, and He hardens whom He desires.

Ps 65:4 How blessed is the one whom You choose and bring near to You to dwell in Your courts.
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Unread 09-16-2009, 07:20 PM
 
Location: Dallas, TX
9 posts, read 4,309 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HotinAZ View Post
It is not a contradiction at all. Narrow is the way to Life, period. Wide is the road to destruction, period. He knows all, yes. But rather make the choices FOR us, like you all think He does, it is rather left up to us on who we follow. Our choice. Same choice as was in the beginning. Same choice as throughout all of humanity. Choice, free-will.

You really think Jesus wants people to worship Him as King knowing they never wanted this? Of course there will be the doubting Thomas. But that is why faith is important. Faith is what we are called into. Faith is what calls us to Him. All are given a small measure of it, but not all will accept it, because their ego, and this life and the pride there-of will prevent this. Does this mean that God would not have made everyone regardless?

Maybe He needs these children of the devil, to put to the test those who call themselves Christian? Thorns of the flesh, perhaps? Shoot, I don't know, and really don't need to. I know He hardened Pharoh's heart. I know He used Judas in the same way. Does this make God less than God, because people refuse to see His Glory and come to Him? No! Rather it makes it ALL the more Glorious, because God is perfect in His ways, and they are not our ways. It may not "seem" right to you, but who are you that questions God? Like the clay has right to question the Potter?
You admitted that God did the hardening of pharoah's and Judas's hearts. So how does that fit with 'free' will. If God did the hardening of the heart it was His action and His decision. So are you saying that God is determines their evil actions to his purpose but your righteous belief is a choice YOU are responsible for? If so, THAT is some real egoism. This whole free will concept is nothing less than human pride. We are not the captain's of our own souls. God intended Adam and Eve to sin. It was fore ordained for Satan to fall and for man to follow after. It was not an accident of 'free' will. God WANTED man to sin so that he could REDEEM him.
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