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Old 08-05-2009, 09:36 PM
 
Location: The A
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The bible speaks of the smoke of their torment..and how long does it last ?

rev 14:11

And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

Wow, unending torment and no rest for ever and ever..after a million years, it hasent but begun..

 
Old 08-05-2009, 10:00 PM
 
Location: NC
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Quote:
I believe that what God has revealed is that he made finite creatures to be judged for what they do - finite beings, judged finitely, punished finitely, corrected purified {aionian) - then given immortality

1Pe 4:5 Who shall give account to him that is ready to judge the quick and the dead.
1Pe 4:6 For for this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit.
Yes, God bless.
 
Old 08-05-2009, 10:46 PM
 
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Rev 2216-22 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely. 18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: 19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.


Reading this it seems to me the invitation to salvation is still open to all
 
Old 08-05-2009, 10:49 PM
 
Location: NC
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Amen, trustinginhim, whosoever God bless.
 
Old 08-06-2009, 01:22 AM
 
3,591 posts, read 467,310 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trustinginhim View Post
Rev 2216-22 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely. 18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: 19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.


Reading this it seems to me the invitation to salvation is still open to all
Trustinghim

Also, if you look here

Rev 14:6 And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,
Rev 14:7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.
Rev 14:8 And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.
Rev 14:9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
Rev 14:10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
Rev 14:11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
Rev 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.
Rev 14:13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.

The good news last as long as the torment does


Just before those that drink of the wine of the wrath of God for worshipping the beast the angel has the everlasting gospel aionian
Also when it says here is the patience of the saints it seems it refers to those that are being tormented, then it says the dead are blessed that die in the Lord. It seems that the dead are "dying" in fire and brimstone - sounds like second death - and resurrection comes after death.
 
Old 08-06-2009, 01:44 AM
 
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Originally Posted by legoman View Post
I take it you are talking about annihilation.



I agree with this. The wicked will be gone. But the burning up is not necessarily physical.

I disagree here as scripture says God is reconciling all to himself (Col 1:16-20, 2 Cor 5:18-19).

The reason the wicked are no more is they have all been converted to righteousness.

Yes the wicked will perish. They will be replaced with a new creation. Look at Saul's conversion to Paul. Saul was wicked. He was destroyed. The new creation "Paul" took his place. But they were the same person you say! Yes and no. Physically they were. But Saul no longer existed. Spiritually he was changed into one of the greatest apostles - Paul.

That is the model for every single individual's conversion.



Anyway, at least we both agree wickedness will be destroyed.
For the wages of sin is death. They will not be converted to righteousness non will they be recreated. They will be 'uncreated' after they have appeased the wrath of God. This is law of the Most High God. Do not add to it neither change it.

Reconciliation to God of the unbelievers is a false teaching. It will not happen.

Romans 6:23 - For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
 
Old 08-06-2009, 08:41 AM
 
Location: NC
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Reconciliation to God of the unbelievers is a false teaching. It will not happen.
Hi, I believe that the scriptures reveal that it is true. It was God's good pleasure to reconcile all to Himself (Col.1) Those who are unbelievers now will one day be believers and will swear allegiance to Him. God bless.
 
Old 08-06-2009, 08:59 AM
 
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Quote:
They will be 'uncreated' after they have appeased the wrath of God. This is law of the Most High God. Do not add to it neither change it.

Reconciliation to God of the unbelievers is a false teaching. It will not happen.
if what you believe is true then that means that the following are LIES and have no meaning,

Isaiah 40:3-5-3 The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the LORD, make straight in the desert a highway for our God. 4 Every valley shall be exalted, and every mountain and hill shall be made low: and the crooked shall be made straight, and the rough places plain: 5 And the glory of the LORD shall be revealed, and all flesh shall see it together: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.

Luke 3:4 6 As it is written in the book of the words of Esaias the prophet, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight. 5 Every valley shall be filled, and every mountain and hill shall be brought low; and the crooked shall be made straight, and the rough ways shall be made smooth; 6 And all flesh shall see the salvation of God.

1 Timothy 2:
4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; 6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.
 
Old 08-06-2009, 09:14 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Presby View Post
For the wages of sin is death. They will not be converted to righteousness non will they be recreated. They will be 'uncreated' after they have appeased the wrath of God. This is law of the Most High God. Do not add to it neither change it.
It does not say the wages of sin is to be uncreated. Not are the wages of sin eternal torment. Sin as a taskmaster doles out rations of death.

Quote:
Reconciliation to God of the unbelievers is a false teaching. It will not happen.

Romans 6:23 - For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
(CLV) For the ration of Sin is death, yet the gracious gift of God is life eonian, in Christ Jesus, our Lord."

(WNT) For the wages paid by Sin are death; but God's free gift is the Life of the Ages bestowed upon us in Christ Jesus our Lord.

(YLT) for the wages of the sin is death, and the gift of God is life age-during in Christ Jesus our Lord.

God is going to reconcile all, including those receiving the wages of death now (Col.1:20).
 
Old 08-06-2009, 09:18 AM
 
Location: Somewhere
6,370 posts, read 5,648,516 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Presby View Post
For the wages of sin is death. They will not be converted to righteousness non will they be recreated. They will be 'uncreated' after they have appeased the wrath of God. This is law of the Most High God. Do not add to it neither change it.

Reconciliation to God of the unbelievers is a false teaching. It will not happen.

Romans 6:23 - For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
All will be reconciled. Jesus ONLY destroys sin by means of the Holy Spirit. There is NO other way to destroy sin. NONE. You can't find any other method in the scriptures to destroy sin at all. Jesus came to destroy the works of the Devil which is sin.

Paul
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