15 questions (hell, church, believe, scripture)

[trustinginhim]

if any care, here are fifteen questionsto ponder over:

I pulled this little part out of an article athttp://www.godfire.net/fifteen_bombs.htm and thought it would be good fodder

FIFTEEN QUESTIONS
FOR SOBER THOUGHT
1 If God will have all men to be saved, and if most men are lost, then how can God be supreme (1 Tim.2:3,4)?

2 If Christ is the Propitiation for the sins of the whole world, did He die in vain for the lost (1 John 2:2)?(My own side question to this one: without Christ, who is lost)?


3 If God is going to reconcile the universe through Christ, how can some be tormented forever (Col. 1:20)?


4 How can God, in Christ, gather all things together as one while billions remain eternally estranged (Eph.1:10)?


5 If all die in Adam, and a few are made alive in Christ, how can grace much more abound than sin (Rom. 5:20)?


6 If all men are condemned by Adam’s offense, why are not all justified by the one just award (Rom. 5:18)?


7 If all die in Adam, why shall not all be made alive in Christ (1 Cor. 15:22)?


8 How can every knee bow confessing Christ Lord, to God’s glory, unless reconciled (Phil. 2:10,11)?


9 If Christ only hath immortality, how can any of the dead be alive now (1 Tim. 6:14-16; 1 Cor. 15:53, 54)?


10 If the wicked go to hell as soon as they die, why are they raised and judged later (Rev. 20:11-15)?


11 Since the lake of fire is the second death, what happens to the wicked when death is destroyed (1 Cor.15:26)?


12 If "forever" means "eternity" what does "forever and ever" mean?


13 If God is Love and has all power, will He not find away to save all (1 Tim. 4:9-11)?


14 If Christ is to reign for ever and ever, what does it mean that He will abdicate His throne (Rev. 11:15; 1 Cor. 15:24)?


15 Will God ever actually become All in all (1 Cor.15:28)?




And with this final thought
"A theological argument is like a dog fight in a flower bed -- the only things that ever get settled are the flowers."

[Soljia]

FIFTEEN QUESTIONS
FOR SOBER THOUGHT
1 If God will have all men to be saved, and if most men are lost, then how can God be supreme (1 Tim.2:3,4)? therefore none are lost

2 If Christ is the Propitiation for the sins of the whole world, did He die in vain for the lost (1 John 2:2)?(My own side question to this one: without Christ, who is lost)? Christ died for believers

3 If God is going to reconcile the universe through Christ, how can some be tormented forever (Col. 1:20)? He reconciles believers

4 How can God, in Christ, gather all things together as one while billions remain eternally estranged (Eph.1:10)? Christ gathers all believers

5 If all die in Adam, and a few are made alive in Christ, how can grace much more abound than sin (Rom. 5:20)? Amount has nothing to do with grace, just 1 believer going to heaven is grace

6 If all men are condemned by Adam’s offense, why are not all justified by the one just award (Rom. 5:18)? Salvation is for those who exercise their faith in Christ, they are justified (Romans 8:30) 30and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified.

7 If all die in Adam, why shall not all be made alive in Christ (1 Cor. 15:22)? They are. All believers die with Christ and all believers are made alive with Christ.

8 How can every knee bow confessing Christ Lord, to God’s glory, unless reconciled (Phil. 2:10,11)? Don't need to be reconciled to bow your knee. It will be demanded the lost will have no choice but to bow, no different then when the demon possessed man cringed infront of Jesus.

9 If Christ only hath immortality, how can any of the dead be alive now (1 Tim. 6:14-16; 1 Cor. 15:53, 54)? Heralds the end of a church era, when all believers will be removed from the earth at the rapture, dead are raised. They are first and the living saints follow

10 If the wicked go to hell as soon as they die, why are they raised and judged later (Rev. 20:11-15)? there is going to be a final judgment for all men, both believers and unbelievers, is clearly confirmed in many passages of Scripture. Every person will one day stand before Christ and be judged for his or her deeds.

11 Since the lake of fire is the second death, what happens to the wicked when death is destroyed (1 Cor.15:26)? This is speaking of the Son of God and not the Father. Christ has broken the power of Satan but Satan will will not be permanently divested of his weapon of death until the end of the milllennium

12 If "forever" means "eternity" what does "forever and ever" mean? eternity x eternity

13 If God is Love and has all power, will He not find away to save all (1 Tim. 4:9-11)? Human question-that's not the point. Could not God find a way to do away with sin? and a billion more like it. "especially" means all people enjoy God's salvation in some way like those who believe enjoy salvation. God is the saviour of all people in a temporal sense, while of believers in an eternal sense. Paul's point is while God graciously delivers believer's from sin's condemnation and penalty because He was their substitute, all people experience some earthly benefits from the goodness of God.

14 If Christ is to reign for ever and ever, what does it mean that He will abdicate His throne (Rev. 11:15; 1 Cor. 15:24)? Christ reigns forever and ever question# 12. The establishing of the millennial kingdom. Christ will defeat His enemies and establish His messianic kingdom. This kingdom also belongs to God the Father.

15 Will God ever actually become All in all (1 Cor.15:28)? He will reign in His former, full and glorious place within the Trinity, subject to God the Father in the way eternally designed for Him in full Trinitarian glory.

And with this final thought
"A theological argument is like a dog fight in a flower bed -- the only things that ever get settled are the flowers."

Finding the truth is every bit worth it

[ShanaBrown]

If Christ is the Propitiation for the sins of the whole world, did He die in vain for the lost (1 John 2:2)?(My own side question to this one: without Christ, who is lost)? Christ died for believers

What does this mean to you, Soljia?

Colossians 1:15-20
15. He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.16. For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities--all things have been created through Him and for Him.17. He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together.18. He is also head of the body, the church; and He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that He Himself will come to have first place in everything.19. For it was the Father's good pleasure for all the fullness to dwell in Him,20. and through Him to reconcile all things to Himself, having made peace through the blood of His cross; through Him, I say, whether things on earth or things in heaven.



Do you believe that God intentionally created people to burn in everlasting hell, with no hope for salvation? What about babies who do not have the capacity to believe? What about the mentally disabled who may not have the capacity? What is love to you? God bless.

[Soljia]

Paul is addressing heresy in the church dealing primarily with the deity of Christ.

Verse 15: Paul is emphasizing that Christ is both the representation and maniefestation of God. Jesus the first born was the ranking Son who had received the right of inheritance over all creation.

Verse 16: "thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities". These are various categories of angels whom Christ created and rules over. They are believed to be both holy and fallen angel since since He Lords over both groups. The purpose of his catalog of angelic ranks is to show the immeasurable superiority of Christ over any being.

Verse 17: When the universe had its beginning, Christ already existed, thus by definition He must be eternal. Christ sustains the universe, maintaining the power and balance necessary to life's existence and continuity.

Verse 18: Paul uses the human body as a metaphor for the church, of which Christ serves as the head so christ controls every part of the church and gives it life and direction.

Verse 19: Paul is refuting the heretics who are saying that the divine powers were being divided among the creation. His divine powers and attributes was not spread out among created beings, but completely dwelt in Christ alone

Verse 20: "reconcile" means to change or exchange. It refers to a change in the sinner's relationship to God. Man is reconciled to God when God restores man to a right relationship with Him through Jesus Christ. An intensified form for "reconcile" is used in this verse to refer to the total and complete reconciliation of believers and ultimately "all things" in the created universe. This text does not teach that, as a result, all will believe; rather it teaches that all will ultimately submit. Having made peace God and those He saved are no longer at enmity with each other.

[ShanaBrown]

20. and through Him to reconcile all things to Himself, having made peace through the blood of His cross; through Him, I say, whether things on earth or things in heaven.

Hi Soljia

the verse here says "reconcile" - not submit.


reconcile= apokatallasso = to reconcile completely, to change from one condition to another so as to remove all enmity and and no impediment to unity and peace, the restoration of a relationship of peace that has been disturbed (Vines/Hebrew-Greek Key Word Study Bible)

This is applied to all things according to vs. 20 and in light of the context of the passage.

An intensified form for "reconcile" is used in this verse to refer to the total and complete reconciliation of believers and ultimately "all things" in the created universe

I agree with this.

Do you believe that God intentionally created people to burn in everlasting hell, with no hope for salvation? What about babies who do not have the capacity to believe? What about the mentally disabled who may not have the capacity? What is love to you? God bless


God bless

[ShanaBrown]

12 If "forever" means "eternity" what does "forever and ever" mean? eternity x eternity

How can eternity be more than eternity? God bless

[trustinginhim]

by:Soljia

If Christ is the Propitiation for the sins of the whole world, did He die in vain for the lost (1 John 2:2)?(My own side question to this one: without Christ, who is lost)? Christ died for believers

it's pretty obvious that you did not use scripture or else you would not have said that, lets use scripture shall we:

Matt 18:11 For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost. (and in the following we are told He will save all and will not fail)

12 How think ye? if a man have an hundred sheep, and one of them be gone astray, doth he not leave the ninety and nine, and goeth into the mountains, and seeketh that which is gone astray? 13 And if so be that he find it, verily I say unto you, he rejoiceth more of that sheep, than of the ninety and nine which went not astray. 14 Even so it is not the will of your Father which is in heaven, that one of these little ones should perish.

So now the side question i had is, who is lost?
According to scripture all of us are lost, until He finds us

A thought i just had while typing this....Does the lost sheep go out to look for the shepperd? or does the shepperd go out to look for the lost sheep. to me vs 12 &13 says that the shepperd seeks the lost one, which to me connects with the scripture that it is when God "draws" us to Him we come

i have had a situation to develope this pm, i don't know how long i will be out of touch, but i will get back shortly to go through the others
for now............blessings yall

[trustinginhim]

i have a window of opportunity to expand on my thought about the response from Soljia on question #2

Again scripture disputes your answer:

Romans 5:6-10- 6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. 7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die. 8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. 9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. 10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

[Soljia]

Originally Posted by ShanaBrown

Hi Soljia

the verse here says "reconcile" - not submit.


reconcile= apokatallasso = to reconcile completely, to change from one condition to another so as to remove all enmity and and no impediment to unity and peace, the restoration of a relationship of peace that has been disturbed (Vines/Hebrew-Greek Key Word Study Bible)

This is applied to all things according to vs. 20 and in light of the context of the passage.

Yes I know and all will be reconciled but only believers have the capacity to love and worship, unbelievers like atheists will be reconciled seeing He is the King, their creator and they will do something they never did before; they will bow, recognize and acknowledge Him. They will go to hell and fully knowing and fully accepting they belong there. They still don't love Him but they will recognize His deity.

I agree with this.

Do you believe that God intentionally created people to burn in everlasting hell, with no hope for salvation? What about babies who do not have the capacity to believe? What about the mentally disabled who may not have the capacity? What is love to you? God bless

No. I believe babies and mentally children are not included, they do not possess the full mental ability to choose.

[Soljia]

Originally Posted by ShanaBrown

How can eternity be more than eternity? God bless

I said that in jest. It really has no significance.