Who Cause the Fall Of Lucifer God Or Jesus? (Jehovah, doctrine, Israel)

[pneuma]

Originally Posted by Hotep

7] I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things Isa 45.


you believe in the Bible?

Create also means "cut down"

So it should read

I form light and cut down darkness: I make peace, and cut down evil: I the Lord do all these things.

[Reverend1111]

firstborn,
Lucifer was real and so was Satan. Why would celestials and beings from other planets tell of Him if he wasn't real? What you wrote is the other post is your speculation. I can give you several messages from the spirit world the do tell of Lucifer.

[Reverend1111]

Originally Posted by pneuma

Create also means "cut down"

So it should read

I form light and cut down darkness: I make peace, and cut down evil: I the Lord do all these things.

Yes, I agree. We created the darkness and evil and, by our own chooing to side with God, darkness and evil will be eradicated. No one will be evil and no one will be in darkness.

[Hotep]

Originally Posted by pneuma

Create also means "cut down"

So it should read

I form light and cut down darkness: I make peace, and cut down evil: I the Lord do all these things.

did God create darkness?
or did darkness create itself?


peace

[pneuma]

Originally Posted by Hotep

did God create darkness?
or did darkness create itself?


peace

According to scripture darkness was already here when God created the earth.

[ScarletWren]

And if it was here before the earth, God didn't create it? What about the angelis hosts that sang at creation? Scripture says that in God is no darkness at all....so how was it here when God created the universe?

Hotep, you never merely have one choice in a matter. I could choose to drink neither of the cups of milk, or I could spill it on the ground, or I could throw it in someone's face. I could put something foul tasting in it and offer it to someone else. Many other choices are possible with those 2 glasses of milk. What is going to keep me from wanting to do any of those things, especially the latter. What would limit my choice to think the only thing I can do when I see those two glasses of milk is pick one and drink it? If my choices/former will are not altered to prevent me fromconsidering some of the choices I suggested, what prevents me from considering them on a day I'm really bored and want some chaos? In this life, I do not have the personality to actively seek to harm someone, though my thoughts fleetingly go there now and then. So if I'm incapable of not having those thoughts and/or inclinations in 'heaven' then God must have made it to be so. And then I would be more or less what those who claim free will now say is being a robot. We have choices galore now, and yes, evil choices are available with seemingly no limitations, but still, we cannot always carry out our wills because many things can spring up to block that path and put us on another path. It seems we have complete freedom of choice, but many many things are involved in our making each choice. My choice of food usually stems from what tastes good to me. I never liked peas, my mother said I spit them out as a baby. That wasn't a choice, they tasted bad to me and they tasted bad because my taste buds were created to not like them. lol. That seems like a foolish illustration, but in the beginning we have no free will. Our bodies cry when they get hungry, hurt, need changed, and on and on. We are blank slates that need to be 'programmed.' And as infants/children external causes are doing the programming. AT some point we begin to be able to make choices and then we make choices based on past choices and results and when we choose something that has negative (or positive) results, we store that memory away and make the next choice with a certain amount of basis in that former 'choice'. So by the time we are adults all of these seeming 'free' choices are based on past experiences that we don't even take a nano second to consider until it becomes a very major decision. It's just easier to beleve we make our choices with complete ojbectivity. That was tiring, I think I CHOOSE to quit here.

[Hotep]

Originally Posted by pneuma

According to scripture darkness was already here when God created the earth.

Did God create the heavens before the earth?

peace

[ShanaBrown]

And if it was here before the earth, God didn't create it? What about the angelis hosts that sang at creation? Scripture says that in God is no darkness at all....so how was it here when God created the universe?

Hotep, you never merely have one choice in a matter. I could choose to drink neither of the cups of milk, or I could spill it on the ground, or I could throw it in someone's face. I could put something foul tasting in it and offer it to someone else. Many other choices are possible with those 2 glasses of milk. What is going to keep me from wanting to do any of those things, especially the latter. What would limit my choice to think the only thing I can do when I see those two glasses of milk is pick one and drink it? If my choices/former will are not altered to prevent me fromconsidering some of the choices I suggested, what prevents me from considering them on a day I'm really bored and want some chaos? In this life, I do not have the personality to actively seek to harm someone, though my thoughts fleetingly go there now and then. So if I'm incapable of not having those thoughts and/or inclinations in 'heaven' then God must have made it to be so. And then I would be more or less what those who claim free will now say is being a robot. We have choices galore now, and yes, evil choices are available with seemingly no limitations, but still, we cannot always carry out our wills because many things can spring up to block that path and put us on another path. It seems we have complete freedom of choice, but many many things are involved in our making each choice. My choice of food usually stems from what tastes good to me. I never liked peas, my mother said I spit them out as a baby. That wasn't a choice, they tasted bad to me and they tasted bad because my taste buds were created to not like them. lol. That seems like a foolish illustration, but in the beginning we have no free will. Our bodies cry when they get hungry, hurt, need changed, and on and on. We are blank slates that need to be 'programmed.' And as infants/children external causes are doing the programming. AT some point we begin to be able to make choices and then we make choices based on past choices and results and when we choose something that has negative (or positive) results, we store that memory away and make the next choice with a certain amount of basis in that former 'choice'. So by the time we are adults all of these seeming 'free' choices are based on past experiences that we don't even take a nano second to consider until it becomes a very major decision. It's just easier to beleve we make our choices with complete ojbectivity. That was tiring, I think I CHOOSE to quit here.

Agree, ScarletWren. Something always influences or is the reason for the choices that we make. God bless.

[ShanaBrown]

Create also means "cut down"

So it should read

Pnuema, do you have a reference for that definition in this passage? I have never heard of that. Thanks and God bless.

[spm62]

Originally Posted by ScarletWren

And if it was here before the earth, God didn't create it? What about the angelis hosts that sang at creation? Scripture says that in God is no darkness at all....so how was it here when God created the universe?

Hotep, you never merely have one choice in a matter. I could choose to drink neither of the cups of milk, or I could spill it on the ground, or I could throw it in someone's face. I could put something foul tasting in it and offer it to someone else. Many other choices are possible with those 2 glasses of milk. What is going to keep me from wanting to do any of those things, especially the latter. What would limit my choice to think the only thing I can do when I see those two glasses of milk is pick one and drink it? If my choices/former will are not altered to prevent me fromconsidering some of the choices I suggested, what prevents me from considering them on a day I'm really bored and want some chaos? In this life, I do not have the personality to actively seek to harm someone, though my thoughts fleetingly go there now and then. So if I'm incapable of not having those thoughts and/or inclinations in 'heaven' then God must have made it to be so. And then I would be more or less what those who claim free will now say is being a robot. We have choices galore now, and yes, evil choices are available with seemingly no limitations, but still, we cannot always carry out our wills because many things can spring up to block that path and put us on another path. It seems we have complete freedom of choice, but many many things are involved in our making each choice. My choice of food usually stems from what tastes good to me. I never liked peas, my mother said I spit them out as a baby. That wasn't a choice, they tasted bad to me and they tasted bad because my taste buds were created to not like them. lol. That seems like a foolish illustration, but in the beginning we have no free will. Our bodies cry when they get hungry, hurt, need changed, and on and on. We are blank slates that need to be 'programmed.' And as infants/children external causes are doing the programming. AT some point we begin to be able to make choices and then we make choices based on past choices and results and when we choose something that has negative (or positive) results, we store that memory away and make the next choice with a certain amount of basis in that former 'choice'. So by the time we are adults all of these seeming 'free' choices are based on past experiences that we don't even take a nano second to consider until it becomes a very major decision. It's just easier to beleve we make our choices with complete ojbectivity. That was tiring, I think I CHOOSE to quit here.

I agree Scarlet. I believe when we grow into adults and gain a certain amount of knowledge,we lose our humility to a certain extent. We began to think we are intelligent beings,able to do what we want free from God,intelligent and knowledgable enough to make the most crucial decision. We are actually like babes to God. Just like we were dependant on our earthly parents when were mere physical babies.
I`m beginning to wonder if something similiar didn`t happen with Adam and Eve. Not that they were physical babies but something about growing in what we determine wisdom. Getting to the point where we believe we have enough wisdom and power to direct our own steps,believing we act independantly of God. It is just hard for humans to reason that they are not controlling creation. If every individual believes they have all the wisdom and power they need to direct their own steps and make wise decisions concerning their individual future independant of God, then God is not controlling his creation...man is.