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How many times did Jesus' parables end with people entering into the darkness with the "weeping and gnashing of teeth"? Doesn't sound exactly pleasant to me.
No it doesn't but that didn't answer my question about your post .
Weeping and gnashing of teeth does not for one moment mean it's eternal .
Infact i gnash my teeth at times and weep , especially when i discover more and more of how He loves us and realize what a jerk of a christian i was believing in church tradition over the Love and grace of God
Our Heavenly Father corrects us for our good not for eternal damnation.Most earthly Father's would do so , how much more would our Heavenly Father.
No it doesn't but that didn't answer my question about your post .
Weeping and gnashing of teeth does not for one moment mean it's eternal .
Infact i gnash my teeth at times and weep , especially when i discover more and more of how He loves us and realize what a jerk of a christian i was believing in church tradition over the Love and grace of God
Our Heavenly Father corrects us for our good not for eternal damnation.Most earthly Father's would do so , how much more would our Heavenly Father.
I agree. The argument always seems to say that universalists deny Gods judgments or our accountability. Now, there of course may be some that do. But by and large the idea that God will save all men is an issue that GOD does Judge and hold us accountable and sentences us to correction.
Just because a universalist denies the idea of an ETERNAL sentence of DOOM does not mean they are denying judgment or even punishment, but that we see those judgments and punishments in light of correcting our flaws, reconciliation, rehabilitation which is entirely biblical.
Phazelwood, you might just as well have listed every single sentence of mine in quotes and then commented "Irrelevant" It would have saved you so much time and energy. The level of denial here is mind-boggling. That many here think they can speak for God; that they presume to think for God; that they have the audacity to say, "A gentle, loving God would NEVER condemn His children to hell, and if He does I don't want to serve a God like that.... I just cannot wrap my mind around this kind of.....arrogance, like God owes them preferential treatment just because He created them. How we forget that it is we that need God. He doesn't need us. He created us for His good pleasure; that is word-for-word His Word. He states very plainly, "I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy". With those words He grants Himself total authority to redeem some and to send other straight to hell for eternity. Thank God His perfect justice is tempered by incredible boundless mercy and love, or we'd all end up in hell, as it is exactly what we deserve for the multitude of sins we have committed. God doesn't ask much. The rules are simple; accept Jesus IN THIS LIFETIME, when the Spirit draws you. Repent, live a holy life, or as close as you can honestly get. If you choose this, you will be saved. If you choose to knowingly reject God now, He rejects you in the afterlife. It's stated plainly in the Bible. Those who don't hear the gospel will judged by the conscience in their heart as Paul plainly states. Everyone at some point in their lives crosses the boundary from childhood innocence to knowledge of good and evil and then become accountable to God for their decisions. The knowing rejection of Jesus' sacrifice for us is deserving of eternal torment in hell and is perfect justice, so grave is that decision. That is why the Bible states in too many passages to ignore, "I am the Way. NO man comes to the Father, but by Me." It couldn't be plainer. There's no need to string together endless scriptures filled with half the story to justify a doctrine that cannot stand on its own with just ONE scripture that plainly states God will redeem ALL men OUT OF HELL. Doesn't appear anywhere in the Bible. Never did. Never will, no matter how many different translations you throw at someone and no matter how many scriptures you parse out to twist the truth.
Phazelwood, you might just as well have listed every single sentence of mine in quotes and then commented "Irrelevant" It would have saved you so much time and energy.
But that is not what I did so your point is in error.
I gave explanations which by your own standards you are denying.
That is why the Bible states in too many passages to ignore, "I am the Way. NO man comes to the Father, but by Me." It couldn't be plainer.
Phl 2:11 and every tongue should be acclaiming~ that Jesus Christ is Lord, into for the glory of God, the Father.
Couldn't be plainer
1C 12:3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and [that] no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.
Well methinks universalists want a cop out for their sin. Oh how horrible it must be that a God who claims to be all loving must also be justice in its purest form and it is in this justice that He punishes creation. Tell me, how is justice given when God allows a man like Hitler, who killed over 8 million Jews and damaged the lives of millions more, who blatantly violated every form of human decency and even the will of God, will share the same end as men like Paul and Peter who devoted their lives to the message and died for the sake of Christ. How is this justice?
Yes, stopping a child from being roadkill is the same thing as fully grown adults, who have been exposed to God's love time and time again, blatantly rejecting everything God has done for them in their lives and ultimately opting to choose to live a morally depraved life without any regard for the One who died for them. Tell you what, I'll give you a little homework. You show me in Scripture where the Word directly tells us about an eventual restoration. I've said it time and time again that I see no indication of universalism being true in Scripture, you got a problem then you got it with Scripture.
We can say the same thing about you.
First please don't insult me with that smiley face...it's called being a smart alec, I don't appreciate it.
Second, exlcusivists would agree that if Hitler sincerely accepted Christ on his death bed, he would be in heaven...it's the same thing.
Third, in talking about grown adults, that's the problem...you think grown adults can understand spiritual matter own their own...you believe you were wise enough to make a decision for Christ on your own...even though you would say it was by God's grace, you believe that because you yourself submitted, God has saved you. I would love to see the conversation in heaven..."So my son, why were you saved?"
"Well I excersised my own will to believe in you"
"Oh really?"
rofl
Tell me something, believe in unicorns. Just do it.
And what part of the scripture "I chose you, you did not choose me" don't people understand?
God is all loving, God is all justice; the question is then how can He claim to have perfect justice and then grant every human on earth, regardless of the life they have led, to enter into the kingdom to enjoy being with Him.
Nero, we are told that God is love. (1 John 4:8) God is able to open all eyes and cause all to return to Him, win all hearts to Himself just as He did for us. He has all power. God "allows us to enter the kingdom of heaven" regardless of the life we have lived in the past and He will do the same for all. Jesus died for all mankind and is the propiation for all mankind. If it was all about His perfect justice, none would be saved.
Quote:
Is it really so shocking of a notion? Lucifer, God's most perfect angel, lived in His very presence and he still was able to enter into sin, which, according to Revelations, has led him to an eternal separation from God (debatable among universalists). If God is able to punish one of His greatest creations so harshly, how much more is He willing to do against us lower beings? Aren't we just as capable of being hardened to sin as Lucifer was?
I don't believe that Lucifer experiences eternal separation. The scriptures tell us that the wages of sin is death. Eternal torment is not mentioned at all. Why add to what the scriptures teach?
Quote:
Can we not live our lives without any regard for the immoral things we do to ourselves and others? I think we are that messed up. Only through accepting the blood that God has given to us can we find cleansing from our sinful flesh. Throughout Scripture, God makes it quite clear that only the meek, the humble and holy will ever see the kingdom while the fornicators, murderers, theives, liars etc etc will never see God or His kingdom. Revelations: those not found in the Lamb's book of Life are cast down into the lake of fire, the same location that Lucifer will be cast down into upon the completion of God's plan.
Well, I don't believe that fornicators, murderers, theives, liars etc etc will never see God or His kingdom. I believe that the experience in the lake of fire will bring about a change. The scriptures teach a reuniting of all things in Jesus Christ, a deliverance of the creation, God becoming all in all. so all will be changed. (Eph. 1, Romans 8, 1 Cor. 15)
Quote:
I think you and I have discussed this before, why didn't Revelations indicate any notion of eventual restoration? Why didn't it make mention that the people not found in the Lamb's book of Life would eventually rise from the lake to be in God's presence? Furthermore, why do Jesus' apocalyptic parables not make any mention of it either.
Revelation may be the last book in the Bible, but it is not the end of the story. Paul's revelations/teachings take us further than Revelation. For example, in Rev. we see kings still reigning and Jesus is on the throne co-ruling with the Father. In Cor. 15 we see that all rule, power, and authority has been abolished (except for God's) and Jesus delivers up the kingdom to the Father. The Father reigns supreme. We learn from the apostle Paul:
"
8:18-22
18. For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory that is to be revealed to us.19. For the anxious longing of the creation/creature waits eagerly for the revealing of the sons of God.20. For the creation/creature was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it, in * hope21. that the creation/creature itself also will be set free from its slavery to corruption into the freedom of the glory of the children of God.22. For we know that the whole creation groans and suffers the pains of childbirth together until now.
*hope=elpis=expectation
1 Corinthians 15:16-28
16. For if the dead are not raised, not even Christ has been raised;17. and if Christ has not been raised, your faith is worthless; you are still in your sins.18. Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished.19. If we have hoped in Christ in this life only, we are of all men most to be pitied.20. But now Christ has been raised from the dead, the first fruits of those who are asleep.21. For since by a man came death, by a man also came the resurrection of the dead.22. For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive.23. But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, after that those who are Christ's at His coming,24. then comes the end, when He hands over the kingdom to the God and Father, when He has abolished all rule and all authority and power.25. For He must reign until He has put all His enemies under His feet.26. The last enemy that will be abolished is death.27. For He has put all things in subjection under His feet. But when He says, "All things are put in subjection," it is evident that He is excepted who put all things in subjection to Him.28. When all things are subjected to Him, then the Son Himself also will be subjected to the One who subjected all things to Him, so that God may be all in all.
Colossians 1:15-20
15. He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.16. For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities--all things have been created through Him and for Him.17. He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together.18. He is also head of the body, the church; and He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that He Himself will come to have first place in everything.19. For it was the Father's good pleasure for all the fullness to dwell in Him,20. and through Him to reconcile all things to Himself, having made peace through the blood of His cross; through Him, I say, whether things on earth or things in heaven.
Ephesians 1: 5-10
"He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will, to the praise of the glory of His grace which He freely bestowed on us in the Beloved. In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace, which He lavished upon us. In all wisdom and insight He made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His kind intention which He purposed in Him with a view to an administration suitable to the fulness of the times, that is the *summing up of all things in Christ, things in the heavens, and things upon the earth."
*summing up=anakephalaioomai=to gather together again in one, to reunite under one head as in Eph. 1 (mid. voice) (Hebrew/Greek Key Word Study)
God bless.
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I just cannot wrap my mind around this kind of.....arrogance, like God owes them preferential treatment just because He created them. 
How we forget that it is we that need God. He doesn't need us. He created us for His good pleasure; that is word-for-word His Word. He states very plainly, "I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy". With those words He grants Himself total authority to redeem some and to send other straight to hell for eternity. Thank God His perfect justice is tempered by incredible boundless mercy and love, or we'd all end up in hell, as it is exactly what we deserve for the multitude of sins we have committed. God doesn't ask much. The rules are simple; accept Jesus IN THIS LIFETIME, when the Spirit draws you. Repent, live a holy life, or as close as you can honestly get. If you choose this, you will be saved. If you choose to knowingly reject God now, He rejects you in the afterlife. It's stated plainly in the Bible. Those who don't hear the gospel will judged by the conscience in their heart as Paul plainly states. Everyone at some point in their lives crosses the boundary from childhood innocence to knowledge of good and evil and then become accountable to God for their decisions. The knowing rejection of Jesus' sacrifice for us is deserving of eternal torment in hell and is perfect justice, so grave is that decision. That is why the Bible states in too many passages to ignore, "I am the Way. NO man comes to the Father, but by Me." It couldn't be plainer. There's no need to string together endless scriptures filled with half the story to justify a doctrine that cannot stand on its own with just ONE scripture that plainly states God will redeem ALL men OUT OF HELL. Doesn't appear anywhere in the Bible. Never did. Never will, no matter how many different translations you throw at someone and no matter how many scriptures you parse out to twist the truth.
