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Old 08-13-2009, 07:51 AM
 
7,463 posts, read 7,090,646 times
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June is back, with yet another genuinely sincere querie.

In the past few days and weeks it would appear that many have had "hell" and "eternal torment" and "all things gloom and doom" as regards Christianity on the mind. This is something that June finds so incredibly confounding, as given her (perhaps questionably limited) understanding of Christianity, the aforementioned concepts are hardly the first things that come to mind when she thinks of "Christianity." June notices how people's feelings get hurt quite often around here; how people feel invalidated, offended, and not heard. Some feel like what was actually described as being "a stranger" here. Some choose to leave permanently as a result of all these things mentioned.

That's something that is sadly curious to June...As well, it strikes her as being somehow ironic that --more often than not lately-- what she reads here on the "Christianity subforum" would tend to reinforce a person's lack of belief as opposed to challenging their nonbelief. This, in turn, got June wondering about a few things: How fast would any seeker, or anyone who was simply curious about Christianity turn and run for their lives away from the message they read here? -Somehow that doesn't quite 'line up' with all that June thought she knew about Christianity.

--As a result of what is mentioned above, and to her very own "just June" shock and dismay, she found herself pondering the notion of "grace" last evening. The problem, however, is that given her nonbelieving mindset, she really isn't quite sure just what grace is, such that she isn't sure what form those ponderings should even take!

She is sure, however, (for reasons she is at a loss to explain) that it is something that is probably not a bad thing to ponder. For anyone. Especially here. So, to anyone who feels so inclined to talk to June about whatever "grace" is in Christianity, she invites you to help her out, and do so. In doing so, however, if at all possible, she would also ask that you do so by using/showing (?) some, if that is something that is possible, if grace exists?


Thanks in advance.

Take gentle graceful care.

Last edited by june 7th; 08-13-2009 at 09:14 AM..
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Old 08-13-2009, 08:01 AM
 
302 posts, read 331,535 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by june 7th View Post
June is back, with yet another genuinely sincere querie.

In the past few days and weeks it would appear that many have had "hell" and "eternal torment" and "all things gloom and doom" as regards Christianity on the mind. This is something that June finds so incredibly confounding, as given her (perhaps questionably limited) understanding of Christianity, the aforementioned concepts are hardly the first things that come to mind when she thinks of "Christianity." June notices how people's feelings get hurt quite often around here; how people feel invalidated, offended, and not heard. Some feel like what was actually described as being "a stranger" here. Some chose to leave permanently as a result of all these things mentioned.

That's something that is sadly curious to June...As well, it strikes her as being somehow ironic that --more often than not lately-- what she reads here on the "Christianity subforum" would tend to reinforce a person's lack of belief as opposed to challenging their nonbelief. This, in turn, got June wondering about a few things: How fast would any seeker, or anyone who was simply curious about Christianity turn and run for their lives away from the message they read here? -Somehow that doesn't quite 'line up' with all that June thought she knew about Christianity.

--As a result of what is mentioned above, and to her very own "just June" shock and dismay, she found herself pondering the notion of "grace" last evening. The problem, however, is that given her nonbelieving mindset, she really isn't quite sure just what grace is, such that she isn't sure what form those ponderings should even take!

She is sure, however, (for reasons she is at a loss to explain) that it is something that is probably not a bad thing to ponder. For anyone. Especially here. So, to anyone who feels so inclined to talk to June about whatever "grace" is in Christianity, she invites you to help her out, and do so. In doing so, however, whatever it is that 'grace' is, she would also invite you to do so by using some, if that is something that is possible, or even exists.


Thanks in advance.

Take gentle graceful care.
*******************************************

Welcome back, June.

Here is my answer to your request:

WHAT DOES IT MEAN TO BE "SAVED BY GRACE"?
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Old 08-13-2009, 08:03 AM
 
5,685 posts, read 2,883,083 times
Reputation: 441
Quote:
Originally Posted by june 7th View Post
June is back, with yet another genuinely sincere querie.

In the past few days and weeks it would appear that many have had "hell" and "eternal torment" and "all things gloom and doom" as regards Christianity on the mind. This is something that June finds so incredibly confounding, as given her (perhaps questionably limited) understanding of Christianity, the aforementioned concepts are hardly the first things that come to mind when she thinks of "Christianity." June notices how people's feelings get hurt quite often around here; how people feel invalidated, offended, and not heard. Some feel like what was actually described as being "a stranger" here. Some chose to leave permanently as a result of all these things mentioned.

That's something that is sadly curious to June...As well, it strikes her as being somehow ironic that --more often than not lately-- what she reads here on the "Christianity subforum" would tend to reinforce a person's lack of belief as opposed to challenging their nonbelief. This, in turn, got June wondering about a few things: How fast would any seeker, or anyone who was simply curious about Christianity turn and run for their lives away from the message they read here? -Somehow that doesn't quite 'line up' with all that June thought she knew about Christianity.

--As a result of what is mentioned above, and to her very own "just June" shock and dismay, she found herself pondering the notion of "grace" last evening. The problem, however, is that given her nonbelieving mindset, she really isn't quite sure just what grace is, such that she isn't sure what form those ponderings should even take!

She is sure, however, (for reasons she is at a loss to explain) that it is something that is probably not a bad thing to ponder. For anyone. Especially here. So, to anyone who feels so inclined to talk to June about whatever "grace" is in Christianity, she invites you to help her out, and do so. In doing so, however, if at all possible, she would also ask that you do so by using (?) showing (?) some, if that is something that is possible, if grace even exists?


Thanks in advance.

Take gentle graceful care.
June, the first thing to know is that while Grace is defined in many concordances as "favor" that definition in my opinion is a bit to general. Grace is APPROVAL. When you have Grace - you have God's APPROVAL. Your approved of if you have Grace. Secondly, Faith is ACCESS to Grace. If you understand those two things, you can weed out a lot of the errors in discussions about Grace.

Paul
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Old 08-13-2009, 08:14 AM
 
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Grace is that no one is excluded from Gods love and purpose to reconcile all.
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Old 08-13-2009, 08:28 AM
 
5,685 posts, read 2,883,083 times
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Originally Posted by Phazelwood View Post
Grace is that no one is excluded from Gods love and purpose to reconcile all.
But no everyone has currently received Grace (Approval) at this time. For Faith is the access to Grace. But I agree that in time that everyone will receive APPROVAL and none shall be excluded.

Paul
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Old 08-13-2009, 08:39 AM
 
5,925 posts, read 3,455,752 times
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Originally Posted by trettep View Post
But no everyone has currently received Grace (Approval) at this time. For Faith is the access to Grace. But I agree that in time that everyone will receive APPROVAL and none shall be excluded.

Paul
Grace is the assurance that God never gives up so that all will be approved. It really has nothing to do with the time of approval or access. We can be assured that Grace is about all being included so that your mistakes, my mistakes, someones current unbelief cannot deter that.
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Old 08-13-2009, 08:44 AM
 
5,685 posts, read 2,883,083 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phazelwood View Post
Grace is the assurance that God never gives up so that all will be approved. It really has nothing to do with the time of approval or access. We can be assured that Grace is about all being included so that your mistakes, my mistakes, someones current unbelief cannot deter that.
Yes it does have to do with access.

Rom 5:2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

Faith is the access to Grace or else you need to tell me why Romans 5:2 is incorrect.

Paul
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Old 08-13-2009, 08:52 AM
 
5,925 posts, read 3,455,752 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trettep View Post
Yes it does have to do with access.

Rom 5:2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

Faith is the access to Grace or else you need to tell me why Romans 5:2 is incorrect.

Paul

Good things happen to unbelievers, all good comes from God so their unbelief does not prevent grace from God being bestowed upon them.
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Old 08-13-2009, 08:58 AM
 
5,685 posts, read 2,883,083 times
Reputation: 441
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phazelwood View Post
Good things happen to unbelievers, all good comes from God so their unbelief does not prevent grace from God being bestowed upon them.
Again, Grace is APPROVAL and not JUST favor. And like the verse I provided shows - Faith is the access to that APPROVAL.

Paul
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Old 08-13-2009, 09:08 AM
 
5,925 posts, read 3,455,752 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trettep View Post
Again, Grace is APPROVAL and not JUST favor. And like the verse I provided shows - Faith is the access to that APPROVAL.

Paul

Well, in this thread Grace is just what it is, everyone has it because good happens to everyone. You cannot deny grace for someone if something good happens to them because all good comes from God.

How does something good happen to someone without grace?
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