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Old 08-17-2009, 07:36 AM
 
3,552 posts, read 2,826,740 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post
Lot of -ities there, huh? I've read, participated, then absented myself from the discussions on universalism vs. annihilation vs. ET. I came to the conclusion that we, as a debate team, are treading on dangerous ground. Many ardent supporters of any of the three doctrines feel they are harmlessly debating harmless issues. What we don't comprehend is that our testimonies, arguments, talking points, etc are having far-reaching consequences for the hundreds, perhaps thousands of silent observers who stop in here to read our threads and then go on their way, subconsciously making a decision about how they'll choose to live their lives that will have eternal consequences for them.

I'm not sure if many of here realize the awesome responsibility we assume when we proselytize in favor of one of these doctrines; that a person might or might not end up in hell, either for a time (that's to appease the UR's) or for eternity (to appease the ET's) or just be wiped out of existence (for the annihiliationists) based on the opinions we voice here. It is a terrifying thing to fall into the Hands of the Living God.

Three POV's! All of them cannot be right.

66.666% of us are wrong about two of them and will answer to God for the souls whose destinies we changed. 33.333% of us are right and will not. Add to that the fact that the issue will NEVER be resolved in this present world--66.666% of us will remain wrong and will unintentionally continue to alter the destinies of thousands of people. I gave up the debate not because I tired of the issue of which doctrine is right--I still study it diligently looking to get closer to the truth--but because the guilt of having to answer to God one day in eternity for the souls I caused to be lost if my POV was the incorrect one was too much to bear, given the 2/3 odds that my POV IS wrong. This message will probably be glossed over; most will ignore it. But if the admonishment causes even one of you to realize the immensity of the responsibility you assume when you voice your opinion on UR, or ET or annihililationism, then this post will not have been in vain. God Bless You ALL.
See, you are becoming a work, handcrafted by the Spirit. I fought for many years for all 3 doctrines. In the end, I was led to write something similar to what you wrote. How does one know for sure, that what they preach is the correct one? All 3 are listed in the Bible. So, like you, I just said enough was enough. Becoming led of the Spirit I try to debate away ANY who think their pov is the absolute correct one, for really, they don't know. Have they been there?

We know there is fire. We know there is a judgement and a punishment. ALL 3 agree with this. So, let us bring people to our King, and show them the love of Christ Crucified that is dwelling in our hearts.

Jud 1:20
But you, beloved, building yourselves up on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Spirit, keep yourselves in the love of God, waiting anxiously for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to eternal life.

And have mercy on some, who are doubting; save others, snatching them out of the fire; and on some have mercy with fear, hating even the garment polluted by the flesh.
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Old 08-17-2009, 10:18 AM
 
6,122 posts, read 4,657,808 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HotinAZ View Post
In the end, I was led to write something similar to what you wrote. How does one know for sure, that what they preach is the correct one? All 3 are listed in the Bible.
Ah, Hot, I'm so glad you perceive and share my concern. I'd hoped my message of "just be a little careful" might have rocked Phazelwood's pedestal slightly, if for no other reason than for a little humilities sake. Instead, ever the peacock chest puffed up, defiant smile, strutting about, he gives me:

Quote:
You can live in fear if you like, I won't.
I make no apologies.
As is the right of every human being to make a choice {Thrill: Regardless of their implications, I suppose (sigh)}
You should logically go to the proper end, all of them could be wrong.
No, it is the fact that not everyone will share your emotions of fear. {Thrill: Did I express fear??? That certainly wasn't my intention, more just concern} I believe I am to share what I believe, that's what I do. I'm willing to be held accountable for what I share simple as that. So bring [it] on the images of God that would bind me in fear, they got nothing.
I recall someone in politics who used those words, "Bring it on" with such bravado who later admitted it was a mistake. In my OP I gave the definition of "cocksure". Just out of curiosity, is there anyone who sorta gives you the impression they wrote the book on confidence to the point of arrogance? No offense intended, Phaze. I'm just kidding.

Quote:
So, like you, I just said enough was enough. Becoming led of the Spirit I try to debate away ANY who think their pov is the absolute correct one, for really, they don't know. Have they been there?

We know there is fire. We know there is a judgement and a punishment. ALL 3 agree with this. So, let us bring people to our King, and show them the love of Christ Crucified that is dwelling in our hearts.
A good and logical end, Hot. You're the one I reached.

Jud 1:20
But you, beloved, building yourselves up on your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Spirit, keep yourselves in the love of God, waiting anxiously for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ to eternal life.

And have mercy on some, who are doubting; save others, snatching them out of the fire; and on some have mercy with fear, hating even the garment polluted by the flesh.[/quote]
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Old 08-17-2009, 10:45 AM
 
5,925 posts, read 3,275,517 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post
I recall someone in politics who used those words, "Bring it on" with such bravado who later admitted it was a mistake. In my OP I gave the definition of "cocksure". Just out of curiosity, is there anyone who sorta gives you the impression they wrote the book on confidence to the point of arrogance? No offense intended, Phaze. I'm just kidding.


No offense taken, any point against what I have said will be a "Gods gonna get ya" reply and has no basis in the character of a God who is comprised of LOVE. You will be warning me through your carnal thoughts and not from God at all.


I have already posted a thread on where I stand and will remain standing. If indeed a real God must be appeased through fear then your not safe no matter what you write. Your own God will get you sooner or later so, if thats who God really is, lets get it over with.
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Old 08-17-2009, 12:39 PM
 
6,122 posts, read 4,657,808 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phazelwood View Post
You will be warning me through your carnal thoughts and not from God at all.

I have already posted a thread on where I stand and will remain standing. If indeed a real God must be appeased through fear then your not safe no matter what you write. Your own God will get you sooner or later so, if thats who God really is, lets get it over with.
I guess that says it all!
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Old 08-17-2009, 12:55 PM
 
1,143 posts, read 892,286 times
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Quote:
What we don't comprehend is that our testimonies, arguments, talking points, etc are having far-reaching consequences for the hundreds, perhaps thousands of silent observers who stop in here to read our threads and then go on their way, subconsciously making a decision about how they'll choose to live their lives that will have eternal consequences for them.
I agree with you partly and am aware of the resposibility which anybody has who "teaches" something from the bible.

I almost became Muslim, even then I did not believe in hell though I wouldn't have taught something like that, the teaching of hell turns many away from God and does much harm, I'm convinced that the bible teaches universalism, therefore I have not the slightest doubt that refuting the doctrine of hell is biblical sound, I wouldn't "teach" that if I were not convinced and I did much study; I wish anybody would do that before he teaches anything, just an example:

Greek EIS TON AIOoNA - what does it mean?

my own essay except the many quotations, I didn't trust the Concordant translation and compared basically all existing translations in English and German.

ps: what if Islam is true, ever thought about that? - you can never be 100% sure.
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Old 08-17-2009, 04:37 PM
 
22,660 posts, read 10,315,826 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by svenM View Post
ps: what if Islam is true, ever thought about that? - you can never be 100% sure.
Compare the life and acions of Jesus with those of Mohammed . . . there is no comparision and no doubt who represents the TRUE NATURE of our loving God.
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Old 08-17-2009, 06:18 PM
 
6,122 posts, read 4,657,808 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by svenM View Post
I'm convinced that the bible teaches universalism, therefore I have not the slightest doubt that refuting the doctrine of hell is biblical sound,
Therein lies the crux of the problem, sven. Everybody posting their views on UR, ET, and Annihilation are convinced the Bible supports their position 100%. Yet all three views cannot be correct. 2/3's of them are wrong despite their sincerest beliefs.
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Old 08-17-2009, 07:33 PM
 
5,925 posts, read 3,275,517 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post
Therein lies the crux of the problem, sven. Everybody posting their views on UR, ET, and Annihilation are convinced the Bible supports their position 100%. Yet all three views cannot be correct. 2/3's of them are wrong despite their sincerest beliefs.

What prevents all of them from being wrong?
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Old 08-17-2009, 07:47 PM
 
Location: Small Town USA
1,371 posts, read 1,346,894 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post
Therein lies the crux of the problem, sven. Everybody posting their views on UR, ET, and Annihilation are convinced the Bible supports their position 100%. Yet all three views cannot be correct. 2/3's of them are wrong despite their sincerest beliefs.
Yes, all three views cannot be correct.

I learn alot here, and the views mentioned here, I have been studying on my own, because I do believe there is one truth . . . not all doctrines can be correct.

Will Jesus excuse those of us who interpret things incorrectly? I believe we are responsible to seek the truth with the guidance of the Holy Spirit. I have not found it yet in so many of these views/doctrines/denominations. I am thankfuly for these boards as I go about my journey for the truth, I appreciate everyone's views. I don't want to leave this world without finding the truth . . . as the bible states, there is ONE FAITH, ONE SPIRIT and ONE TRUTH . . . . let's all pray for wisdom and discernment from above.
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Old 08-17-2009, 08:23 PM
 
3,552 posts, read 2,826,740 times
Reputation: 570
Quote:
Originally Posted by lifesigns64 View Post
Yes, all three views cannot be correct.

I learn alot here, and the views mentioned here, I have been studying on my own, because I do believe there is one truth . . . not all doctrines can be correct.

Will Jesus excuse those of us who interpret things incorrectly? I believe we are responsible to seek the truth with the guidance of the Holy Spirit. I have not found it yet in so many of these views/doctrines/denominations. I am thankfuly for these boards as I go about my journey for the truth, I appreciate everyone's views. I don't want to leave this world without finding the truth . . . as the bible states, there is ONE FAITH, ONE SPIRIT and ONE TRUTH . . . . let's all pray for wisdom and discernment from above.
Glad to see another on this journey for Truth!! Seek, and never stop, until you find,,Him. The Spirit will start opening up your eyes, and removing the scales, and you will see nuggets of Truth that will blow your mind, and humble your spirit. But keep in the Word, always, and although man's opinions are good, there is lots of bad thrown in. But just my 2 cents worth.
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