U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Merry Christmas!
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 1.5 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Jump to a detailed profile or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Business Search - 14 Million verified businesses
Search for:  near: 
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 08-18-2009, 08:35 AM
 
3,553 posts, read 2,998,960 times
Reputation: 572

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
Hotinaz please give me an example of how doctrine perfects you.
What do you think the "daily Bread" is? If you stay in the mindset of the Spirit, and let the Spirit feed you through His Word, then you will be perfected with a changing of the heart, tranformed, recreated, into the one acceptable to God.



Quote:
If doctrine is not changing you , then what is the point of it.
Well, it is for me. Sorry you don't have the same relationship that enables the Spirit to reveal His Holy Word to you.

Quote:
The doctrine that is life changing is to bless them that curse you, do good to them that despise you, love your enemies, love your neighbor as yourself, give and it shall be given unto you and so on, this is what Paul was referring to in 2 Tim 3 verse 16.
Um, ok. Since the NT was not written at the time of this writing by Paul, I would highly doubt that Paul would be quoting a gospel. Either way, read verses 6 and 7. What tickles your ears?

Verse 15 doesn't sound like a gospel, but rather the OT, considered sacred writings.


Quote:
I adhere to doctrine , but to argue at length over it and by it judge whether someone is saved by it , is to be in darkness.
How do you adhere to it, when you discount it? What would be the need?

Quote:
Have you any idea what apostasy they warned about ? . I will give you a huge clue Revelation chapter 2 "To the church in Ephesus" .
Yes, I do. Rev 2 is only a part of it. Not the sum of it. 1st John gives further insight, and well as Timothy, both books, and Jude, and both Peters. So, yes. I understand.

Quote:
If you think a walk with God is anything but abiding in His love , you are a million miles off of what life is all about .
Good, then I am not a million miles off the path. But refuse the Bread and see how long you live. This is why your doctrines are so far off the mark. They have been implanted into your mind by the beast, right smack dab in the forehead.


Quote:
This is where all that is God is manifested in all that is us (earthen vessels).
God is manifested everywhere, unless a person is blind. When you are born from above, you become a Light of His. Or maybe this is what you are referring to. God is Love, and those who worship Him must worship in Spirit and TRUTH. Where is the Truth found? Not in a man's heart, that is for sure, unless it is a "new creation".
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 08-18-2009, 08:43 AM
 
5,925 posts, read 3,519,005 times
Reputation: 629
Quote:
Originally Posted by HotinAZ View Post
Well, I'll be your huckleberry.

Actually they ALL could be wrong. Remember, this is a book written though the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. Because even though it may say up is up and down is down, the Spirit may have been telling us something else entirely.

Jesus talked to those seeking Him, in parables. Why? Because the Truth contained in words would fill endless books, and men, instead of seeking Him, would be filled with "head" knowledge, and not a relationship with Him.

When Revelation was being revealed to me, it was nothing like what I was reading. Then, when it was revealed, other parts of scripture was opened up, from Genesis on. So, yes. They all could be wrong. No one knows except one who has been there, even in the Spirit, unless the Spirit opens the door for illumination.

Which is why it is best to stay away from doctrines based upon only words, and not a Divine Revelation pertaining to His Word. This is what Jesus called our Daily Bread. Feed on it daily, for Life. Please don't let it be bitter, when it is sweet.

That is why there is assurance for everyone.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-18-2009, 09:45 AM
 
Location: RI
19,439 posts, read 9,583,719 times
Reputation: 1354
Quote:
Originally Posted by HotinAZ View Post
What do you think the "daily Bread" is? If you stay in the mindset of the Spirit, and let the Spirit feed you through His Word, then you will be perfected with a changing of the heart, tranformed, recreated, into the one acceptable to God.





Well, it is for me. Sorry you don't have the same relationship that enables the Spirit to reveal His Holy Word to you.



Um, ok. Since the NT was not written at the time of this writing by Paul, I would highly doubt that Paul would be quoting a gospel. Either way, read verses 6 and 7. What tickles your ears?

Verse 15 doesn't sound like a gospel, but rather the OT, considered sacred writings.




How do you adhere to it, when you discount it? What would be the need?



Yes, I do. Rev 2 is only a part of it. Not the sum of it. 1st John gives further insight, and well as Timothy, both books, and Jude, and both Peters. So, yes. I understand.



Good, then I am not a million miles off the path. But refuse the Bread and see how long you live. This is why your doctrines are so far off the mark. They have been implanted into your mind by the beast, right smack dab in the forehead.




God is manifested everywhere, unless a person is blind. When you are born from above, you become a Light of His. Or maybe this is what you are referring to. God is Love, and those who worship Him must worship in Spirit and TRUTH. Where is the Truth found? Not in a man's heart, that is for sure, unless it is a "new creation".
Of cause God is manifested in all . Do you know what truth is ? if you think Jesus was referring to doctrine when He said referred to worshipping Him in spirit and truth , you are again a million miles away from the truth .

What do i think God's living word is ? Life to the hearer and doer of it.

Our daily bread is a not a dose of doctrine , how foolish to believe such a thing .

I asked how as doctrine worked in your life to perfect you ? , please give an example.

Do you want to know what Jesus is revealing to me and what is perfecting me ?.

The very same thing that brought me to salvation and the very thing that keeps me in His salvation "His heart towards me and His heart towards the world". The more i think on these things the more wonderful His love becomes known to me, and the more wonderful He becomes known to me , the more i am won over , the more i am won over the more i die to self . How do i come to know this by understanding the Word is His love letter to me.

Last edited by pcamps; 08-18-2009 at 10:41 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-18-2009, 10:40 AM
 
6,557 posts, read 5,167,736 times
Reputation: 1786
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phazelwood View Post
Just answer the question.

What prevents them all from being wrong?
I honestly cannot, Phaze. I've often considered the possibility that they're all right. They're in the Bible. Perhaps God, in His infinite wisdom, doles out different eternities for mankind--some mercifully inherit destruction per "Fear Him who is able to destroy both body and soul in hell"; some inherit eternal torment per "And whoever was not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire--and the smoke of their torment rises forever" But all inherit eternal life per "..who is the Saviour of all men, especially those who believe." Now that may sound like a big contradiction and it is...on our finite level. But on God's infinite level they can all co-exist and occur together in a way we have no means of comprehending in our finite minds and with our limited language skills.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-18-2009, 12:01 PM
 
5,925 posts, read 3,519,005 times
Reputation: 629
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post
in a way we have no means of comprehending in our finite minds and with our limited language skills.
That is what gives all assurance.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-18-2009, 02:01 PM
 
3,553 posts, read 2,998,960 times
Reputation: 572
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
Of cause God is manifested in all .
Huh?



Quote:
Do you know what truth is ?
Yes, Jesus the risen Christ. My King, the Living Word. Yours?

Quote:
if you think Jesus was referring to doctrine when He said referred to worshipping Him in spirit and truth , you are again a million miles away from the truth .
Scripture is where the Holy Spirit revealed who and what Jesus was. That is the truth contained in His Word. How ridiculous to believe anything less, or to discount His Word.

Quote:
What do i think God's living word is ? Life to the hearer and doer of it
.

Yea, well I cannot see it in your posts. All I see is your version of doctrines.

Quote:
Our daily bread is a not a dose of doctrine , how foolish to believe such a thing.
Foolish to the person who doesn't "hear" what the Spirit reveals to them. The cross is even foolishness to those who discount it.

Quote:
I asked how as doctrine worked in your life to perfect you ? , please give an example.
Actually, it was what led me to Him. Yes, He did the drawing, but the Word was made manifest to me, though His written Word. Understand, or should I rephrase it?

Quote:
Do you want to know what Jesus is revealing to me and what is perfecting me ?.
Hmm, I wonder.

Quote:
The very same thing that brought me to salvation and the very thing that keeps me in His salvation "His heart towards me and His heart towards the world".
Brought you to salvation? Oh, you think you are saved? From what?

Quote:
The more i think on these things the more wonderful His love becomes known to me, and the more wonderful He becomes known to me , the more i am won over , the more i am won over the more i die to self .
Die to self? Describe this process to me, if you can. Looking at Jesus' perfection, and love, does not cause all men to die to self, otherwise we would not live in this climate we do.


Quote:
How do i come to know this by understanding the Word is His love letter to me.
What love letter? The Bible? The very doctrines you despise? Interesting how you would say such a thing, when your "doctrines" is all anyone ever hears about. Where do you find this "doctrine" of yours? Oh yea, the "love letter". Well, to those who are being sanctified into His Truth, it can be a "love letter". To those who are perishing, it is a warning. To those who claim a title which they have no business claiming, it is a death sentence. To those who would twist His Word around, and blaspheme the Spirit, it is a extermination notice.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-18-2009, 02:24 PM
 
Location: RI
19,439 posts, read 9,583,719 times
Reputation: 1354
Quote:
Originally Posted by HotinAZ View Post
Huh?





Yes, Jesus the risen Christ. My King, the Living Word. Yours?



Scripture is where the Holy Spirit revealed who and what Jesus was. That is the truth contained in His Word. How ridiculous to believe anything less, or to discount His Word.

.

Yea, well I cannot see it in your posts. All I see is your version of doctrines.



Foolish to the person who doesn't "hear" what the Spirit reveals to them. The cross is even foolishness to those who discount it.



Actually, it was what led me to Him. Yes, He did the drawing, but the Word was made manifest to me, though His written Word. Understand, or should I rephrase it?



Hmm, I wonder.



Brought you to salvation? Oh, you think you are saved? From what?



Die to self? Describe this process to me, if you can. Looking at Jesus' perfection, and love, does not cause all men to die to self, otherwise we would not live in this climate we do.




What love letter? The Bible? The very doctrines you despise? Interesting how you would say such a thing, when your "doctrines" is all anyone ever hears about. Where do you find this "doctrine" of yours? Oh yea, the "love letter". Well, to those who are being sanctified into His Truth, it can be a "love letter". To those who are perishing, it is a warning. To those who claim a title which they have no business claiming, it is a death sentence. To those who would twist His Word around, and blaspheme the Spirit, it is a extermination notice.
I agree with you entirely . You are 100% right and i do not know God . I am a blaspheming degenerate who is perishing because i thought salvation was based on the good news of God so loved the world that He gave us His only begotten son ,that i was so foolish enough to believe that by faith in His grace we are saved, that i am so wrong to believe the Truth is Jesus and not a doctrine. That when Jesus said to worship Him in Spirit and in truth , the truth He was referring to was not doctrine , but having truth in the inward parts (Behold, You desire truth in the innermost being, And in the hidden part You will make me know wisdom).And worst of all i need damning for believing the word of God is a revelation of Jesus Christ and His plan and purpose for mankind. Amen Hotinaz i am a million miles from the truth.

ps i apologize for thinking that love is greater than doctrine and referring to God is love and calling the bible we all read a letter , and then stating the letter is a love letter to the whole world.

Last edited by pcamps; 08-18-2009 at 02:49 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-18-2009, 02:49 PM
 
3,553 posts, read 2,998,960 times
Reputation: 572
Quote:
Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
I agree with you entirely . You are 100% right and i do not know God . I am a blaspheming degenerate who is perishing because i thought salvation was based on the good news of God so loved the world that He gave us His only begotten son ,that i was so foolish enough to believe that by faith in His grace we are saved, that i am so wrong to believe the Truth is Jesus and not a doctrine. That when Jesus said to worship Him in Spirit and in truth , the truth He was referring to was not doctrine , but having truth in the inward parts (Behold, You desire truth in the innermost being, And in the hidden part You will make me know wisdom).And worst of all i need damning for believing the word of God is a revelation of Jesus Christ and His plan and purpose for mankind. Amen Hotinaz i am a million miles from the truth.
Aww, got the ego bruised a bit?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-18-2009, 02:51 PM
 
Location: New Zealand
2,933 posts, read 2,214,876 times
Reputation: 315
HotinAZ

From what I can see both you and pcamps are seeking truth and are both arguing with each other and love and respect between you both is not being shown.

What doctrines do you think that we need for our salvation? I agree with pcamps that Jesus message to us is love - love God, follow him, love our brothers/neighbour, love our enemies.

We are told that to whom much is given much is required -- conversely those that are not given much, not as much will be required --- what will be required from them will be proportional to what they have been given.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-18-2009, 02:59 PM
 
Location: RI
19,439 posts, read 9,583,719 times
Reputation: 1354
Hotinaz what i meant to say was "the reality there is a God is evident for all to see" , and not God is manifested in all, my apologies.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $89,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2014, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25 - Top