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Old 08-25-2009, 10:01 PM
 
Location: USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Verna Perry View Post
Well, I thought I explained why...but I'll say it again...because from experience...whenever I have answered this before...the person who asked, or others, reply in mocking my faith IN Christ...mocking my walk...but I'll stick my head out once again...(I'm sure only for it to be chopped off yet once again)...
...and, my response was:

...I would NEVER, EVER say that I never sin, because there are sins of ignorance that I am not aware of yet that I am sure I am committing...I WOULD say that I have NOT WILLFULLY SINNED since February of this year. I know what sin is...I recognize it when confronted by it...my sinful nature, (which is the nature we are all born with), will urge me to want to sin, but I come against those tempting thoughts IMMEDIATELY as I recognize them as sinful, and I know from God's Word that it is a test allowed by God, to see where my heart is. So, I want God to know that my heart is for Him and Him alone, and His will is what I choose above my own...so, before I allow my thoughts to go any further, I rebuke them...repent for even the thought...and I choose to do what is right in the sight of God...because I love Him, and I want to do what pleases Him.
1 Corinthians 10:13 says, There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: But God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.
Nope...not at all.
I am ignorant of what they could be...until revealed to me.
If I willfully sinned against God's commandments...but "check" does not even come close to describing what the repercussions would be if I willfully sinned against God...now that I have received the knowledge of the truth.
Hebrews 10:26 clearly states: For if we sin willfully after that we have recieved the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins"...sounds like death to me.

In Christ's love,
Verna.
Copying and pasting your previous reply doesn't illustrate your point, or add to a dialog.
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Old 08-25-2009, 10:54 PM
 
Location: Florida
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sundance View Post
Copying and pasting your previous reply doesn't illustrate your point, or add to a dialog.
Asking me questions that I have already answered hinders my ability to expand in any new thoughts or fresh dialog.
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Old 06-26-2010, 10:24 AM
 
Location: US
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Verna Perry View Post
...really? Not so!!

Satan wants us to think that if we think evil or lustful thoughts, that we have sinned already in our minds...but that is only the first step of temptation...and it comes from our "sinful nature."
Temptation is not a sin...but where we decide to take that temptation is an entirely whole new ballgame! We have a choice...at this point of temptation, to decide whether we are going to act according to what our sinful nature would desire us to do...or according to what our "Christ-like" nature would have us to do.
One can either choose to sin, or choose not to sin...and anyone that says it is impossible for you not to sin is a liar, and the truth is not in him...period.

IF you truly are a child of God and the Spirit of Christ dwells within you...THEN...all you have to do is choose not to sin...it's as easy as that...for the believer who walks in faith in Jesus Christ...they will choose life.

However...IF you are truly not a born-again child of God, filled with the Spirit of Christ...THEN...you will not choose not to sin...it's as clear cut as that...for the one who walks not in faith, in Jesus Christ...they will choose death.

By the fruit of your words and deeds...they will know of what type of tree you are.

I chose life...again!!!...

...21 years ago I confessed Jesus as my Lord and Savior...21 years ago...and it was prophetically declared to me on that day, that if I would walk in the way of the Lord, and follow Him, that He would bless my daughter...21 years ago...

21 years of:
ridicule...rejection...failure...despair...pain... trauma...
darkness...depression...testing...testing...testin g...trials...
trials...trials...temptations, one right after the other...choices...mostly bad...very few right...tears...more tears...and even more tears...false teachings...confusion...searching...seeking for truth...21 years...

Last night my beautiful daughter Dawn and I sat here in front of my desk, while my precious little baby grand-daughter slept in the crib just 5 yards away. Here we are...her and I, at midnight, discussing God...Jesus...the Holy Spirit...the Truth of God's Word...keeping the commandments...honoring the Sabbath...the two pastors in my life; Benny Hinn, for 13 years...and my present pastor, John, at my present place of worship, and their false teachings...her life...her purpose...her value...her importance...her responsibilities, not only for herself, but for our beautiful little baby, Teagan...and her future...but most importantly...building her and Teagan's future upon a solid foundation, beginning NOW...with her, (Dawn) showing her child by example, Who Jesus IS!...

...she got it! She received it...we cried...the Holy Spirit was heavy upon both of us. We could barely talk...tears just flowed freely...

Focusing on one area of our "multi-faceted" conversation: our "sinful nature"..."temptation"...having only 2 options; one being choosing to not sin, and the other being choosing to sin...and how it all boils down to obeying the ten commandments...ALL TEN OF THEM.
This revelation of truth hit her just like it hit me when I first heard it...the confusion went away for her...she said so!! All these years, 21 years, her and I both have been so confused...never able to interlock the pieces of the puzzle, and come together in peace, with hope, like we've never known before!.........fastforward.......

...to this morning. Dawn and I loaded up the baby in the car, with all her luggage, and we proceeded to the drug store to pick up some last minute items she needed for her plane trip back home to Minnesota. From there we would go to the gas station, and gas up for our trip to Orlando to the airport.
Before we left the house, my mother asked her if she needed any money, and Dawn said no, that she had enough to check in her luggage, and that was all she needed. She then stated that she thought she had brought more money than that, but she must have been in a hurry and left Minnesota without grabbing all her cash. So, my mother asked her how much she needed and Dawn said, "Maybe $20.00...would that be o.k?"...and mom told me to go by the bank, on our way to the airport, and get $40.00 for her instead. So we did just that...we went to the bank first, withdrew $40.00, I gave it to her, then we went to the drug store. As Dawn opened her wallet to put the $40.00 cash inside, she found the $100.00 bill, that she had placed in a little side pocket...and so delighted she had found it!...<<<

...Here is where the test began...for both of us...

She knew I didn't have a dime...so she handed me one of the $20's of the $40.00 mom gave to her, I smiled and said, "O great! Now I have some gas money!" And she placed the other $20.00 back into her wallet, and went inside the drug store, while I remained in the car with the baby in the cool air-conditioning.
The Holy Spirit said to me..."You have to give it back to your mother; the $20.00 in your hands, and the $20.00 that Dawn has in her wallet. What kind of example are you going to be for Dawn after your beautiful conversation last night concerning making choices to sin or not to sin...?" WHOAH! AWWWWWWWWWKK!! Instant conviction...INSTANT! I answered him...I said, "Forgive me Father, for even thinking for one second that I could keep this $20.00...I will not keep it, and I will inform Dawn about what you just showed me...thank you Holy Spirit...for your precious love for me and her."
When Dawn got back into the car, I immediately told her what the Holy Spirit said, and explained how God was testing us to see where our hearts were, and reminding her of what we discussed last night...and she was so convicted, she couldn't get her half of the $40.00 out of her wallet fast enough, and handed it to me...we cried, we praised God for His Holy Spirit within us...showing us our error in our thoughts, and giving us a chance to make it right!
Remember the song I gave to you all called "The Revelation Song," the one where I told you of how I was singing to it and the Holy Spirit put you all on my heart to pray for you!...and so I shared it with you? Well, as soon as we made the right decision, this song came on the radio, and Dawn and I sang it to the top of our lungs in the car! We considered it a "gift" from God to us, telling us how happy He is with us!...The 45 minute trip to the airport was so amazing...Dawn and I KNEW we were filled with the Holy Spirit...we felt so good knowing we made the right choice...and she told me that I was an amazing mother, and she thanked God for me! Then she got right on the cell phone to call my mother to tell her all that had just occurred...my heart was and still is so blessed, and so full of the love of God...JESUS!!! PRECIOUS JESUS!!!

Evil, lustful thoughts are not the sin...making the choice to go through with the thought, and turn it into an active choice, is the sin. Thank God our thoughts do not bring death to us...we were given a chance to make a choice...and we made the right choice...we chose LIFE!!!...what a joy!!!

In the love of Christ!!!
Verna.
Mat 5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
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Old 06-26-2010, 10:27 AM
 
Location: US
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Verna Perry View Post
Amen scgraham...AMEN!

God Bless,
Verna.
let's look at the one before that

1Co 10:12 Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.

and the one after that

1Co 10:14 Wherefore, my dearly beloved, flee from idolatry.


It is speaking of the falling away from the faith, that is why he follows with flee idolatry...
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Old 06-26-2010, 10:34 AM
 
Location: US
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sundance View Post
I understand what you are saying. However, based on the words of Jesus, I disagree with you.

Sin is not just an action.

Sin originates in the heart, when we do not take our thought life captive. The Lord said that if one is angry at his brother without cause, he is in danger of judgement. He said, if one looks at another woman with lust in his heart, he has committed adultery.

We are on dangerous ground when we think that it's okay to have sinful thoughts, as long as we do not act upon them. Thoughts are expressed in actions. It starts with one's thought life.

We must have control over our thought life, and our attitudes. An action is just the end result, the outward manifestation of what is in one's heart..................that's why the Lord said the things He did.

If folks think it's okay to have evil, jealous, vengeful thoughts without acting on them, you are sadly mistaken. What you think is what you will do.
The Jews thought there was a series of things that were not sinful leading up to the actual action that that action was considered sinful...but, Christ said differently...
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Old 06-26-2010, 10:44 AM
 
Location: US
10,670 posts, read 4,128,473 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alanMolstad View Post
I read this a few times....

I just think you missed the boat with that call....

"give it back"????

Was the money a loan?
Was it given with the understanding that she needed to pay it back?
Not from the story I read.

What it looks like is that the girl needed $20 bucks and asked her mom for it.
The Mom, (being a good mom) directed you to get the girl $40 bucks.


$40?
This is twice what the girl had asked for, and shows us that the mom just wanted to make sure the girl had enough to be safe.

This is an outward sign of a true mom who worries about her children and wants to give good gifts and to provide for the well being of the grandchild.

The money is moot, the amount of money is moot.
It is the gift that is important, the act of giving .

But the fact that it is all about cash tends to screw up how we look at the real important matters here.

Im going to change a few things in the story to help make my point more easy to understand.


My STORY:
Lets say a grand mommy asks her grandson what he wants for his birthday?
And the child thinks for a moment and asks for a "Super red Power board"

Now the grand mother has no idea what a "Super red power board" is, but goes to the store and gets one , wraps it up, and brings it to the birthday party of her grandson.

When it is time to open the gifts, the boy open his grand mother's gift, and sees that while it is a Super red Power Board, it is one that he already has...

Does the Holy Spirit really tell the child to give the gift back to his grand mother?

Or does the Holy Spirit tell the child to just thank his grand mother for the gift?
END OF STORY...


If I give money to my adult child so as to see them safely to the airport, IT'S NOT A LOAN!...
I's a gift!

If $20 bucks is all that is truly needed and asked for, and yet I give you $40 it shows that Im just making sure....
Im making sure you spend the money and not try to hang on to it...

The first $20 is to get you there, the second $20 is to be spent making the trip more enjoyable...
Spend it on a book, a hot dog, buy some candy, some gum, some smokes, I dont care...

The second $20 is padding for the first $20...
I dont want it back, I want it spent!

Thats the point of the second $20.

Handing it back to me?.....well, that is goofy,
its being concerned with the wrong things...

I gave the gift because I wanted to give the gift...
Its not a loan.
You dont help me by returning my gift to me.

Actually, handing me back my gift of love is a bit insulting...makes my act of love seem pointless..

And...and, and, and...
What if.......?
What if you hand me back the gift I gave to your sister, only then to find out that your sister got off the plane and needed $140 to fix her car right away?

Think of how bad I would feel that my gift was so wasted!

"You foolish girls!" is what you would hear from me!"What good is this $40 to me?"
I agree with your assessment...Verna is being a little haughty and self-righteous...
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Old 06-26-2010, 10:52 AM
 
Location: US
10,670 posts, read 4,128,473 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Verna Perry View Post
Not so Sundance...the Bible clearly distinguishes between our "sin nature" and "committing" sin!
Paul speaks of the sinful nature when he states:
"Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me." (Romans 7:17)...and again he states:
"For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would." (Galatians 5:17)
Then John tells us what "committing sin" is:
"He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
...Exactly Sundance!...when we do not take our thought life captive!...when we do not take our thought life captive!...when we do not take our thought life captive!!! YOU MUST...and are ABLE to take your thought life captive by the power of the Spirit of God which is IN YOU...IF..IT IS...IN FACT...WITHIN YOU!!
yes...because if one harbours unforgiveness in his heart...he hasn't taken his thoughts of anger captive...he could have made a choice to not stay angry...but he chose to stay angry...and continued in unforgiveness within his heart! Why can't you see this?
yes...because if one is lusting>>(COMMITTING THE ACT!!!) already in his heart...he has not taken the initial thought captive...he is already imagining what he is doing to her in his thoughts and in his heart if he had the chance to...but he chose to continue on with the thought and turned it into the act by allowing his thought to manifest the act in his imaginings!...but he could have held the initial thought captive right where it began...and changed his thoughts!...but he didn't!...he committed the act in his thoughts!...WE HAVE CONTROL OVER OUR THOUGHTS!!!

"Blessed is the man that ENDURETH TEMPTATION: for when he is TRIED, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him..."
"...But every man is tempted when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed..."
"...THEN WHEN LUST HATH CONCEIVED, IT BRINGETH FORTH SIN: AND SIN, WHEN IT IS FINISHED, BRINGETH FORTH DEATH!!! (James 1:12,14-15)
There is a great difference between our "sin nature" as an active force in man...and "committing" sin, which is rebellion against God! The sin nature is what "urges" us to "committ" the act of sin!

Yes! They are absolutely! So...one's "active" response to a thought will reveal what is in the heart of the one who had the initial thought!...this is called "FRUIT!!!"...what "fruit" do we bear??????

Absolutely! You'll know them by their fruit!!!!!

Sundance...you make me crazy!!! Here you are contradicting your very own argument...and agreeing with what I am so desperately trying to say to you all!!!!

WRONG...WRONG...WRONG...WRONG...WRONG!!!! EVERYONE has the thoughts...this is not the sin!!! Jesus was tempted in His thoughts just as we are..."He was tempted in all things as man are tempted..." YET!!! Jesus was without sin!!...WHY was He without sin?...Yet He was tempted?...Yet He was without sin?...BUT!!!..He was tempted!!!..Yet He was WITHOUT SIN!!!....BECAUSE He didn't ACT UPON THE SIN IN HIS THOUGHTS...HE TOOK CAPTIVE HIS THOUGHTS!!!!!!!!!

Why can't you all see this?!!? Have your eyes been blinded to the truth? It is so clear......!!!!!!!
Are we talking about pre-sacrifice statements or post sacrifice statements?...
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Old 06-26-2010, 11:06 AM
 
Location: US
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Verna Perry View Post
Sundance, I am going to answer this question honestly...and God hears and sees ALL things...

...I said that because from experience...whenever I have answered this before...the person who asked, or others reply in mocking my faith IN Christ...mocking my walk...but I'll stick my head out once again...(I'm sure only for it to be chopped off yet once again)...

...I would NEVER, EVER say that I never sin, because there are sins of ignorance that I am not aware of yet that I am sure I am committing...I WOULD say that I have NOT WILLFULLY SINNED since February of this year. I know what sin is...I recognize it when confronted by it...my sinful nature, (which is the nature we are all born with), will urge me to want to sin, but I come against those tempting thoughts IMMEDIATELY as I recognize them as sinful, and I know from God's Word that it is a test allowed by God, to see where my heart is. So, I want God to know that my heart is for Him and Him alone, and His will is what I choose above my own...so, before I allow my thoughts to go any further, I rebuke them...repent for even the thought...and I choose to do what is right in the sight of God...because I love Him, and I want to do what pleases Him.
1 Corinthians 10:13 says, There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: But God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.

...This "way-of-escape," that God has made for us is the power of the Holy Ghost...the baptism of the Spirit of Christ...this awesome power enables us to overcome sin in our lives!

In Christ's love,
Verna.
No one sins by accident...sin is deliberate...sin is rebellion against God's authority...sin is doing what He says not to do and not doing what He says to do...that is what sin is ...it is not neccessarily, lieing, cheating, stealing... it is rebellion...simple...
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Old 06-26-2010, 11:09 AM
 
Location: US
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Originally Posted by trettep View Post
Hi June, even if your spouse lust for you to satisfy their own flesh it would be sin.

Thoughts are not sinful, it is committed to trangress God's Law that makes them sinful.

June, I'm a believer that Satan is NOT some other being that walks around and tempts people. I believe Satan is the disobedient nature of man that originates in our minds to cause us to cater to our SELF.

When Jesus was in the wilderness and was tempted of the Devil, I don't believe some other creature was present with Him, but rather the things that Jesus was being tempted with were arising out of His own mind and He was putting them down so as to not let those lusts "conceive" and bring forth sin. I believe the Serpent talking to Eve in the Garden was Adam talking in a spirit of disobedience attempting to lure Eve to take of the forbidden fruit. Because it was Eve that was given to Adam by God and I feel that Adam felt if he could get Eve to take of it then it would be "ok", he could then just blame it on Eve and say:

Gen 3:12 And the man said, The woman whom thou gavest to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I did eat.

I believe in the scriptures in a very radical way compared to the mainstream but I have come to see a very different understanding then what many have about God's message. I'm also a universalist and believe God has the purpose, power, and persuasion to change every heart towards His ways and that He will not fail to do so.

Paul
Boy, Paul...lol...Have you got that all screwed up....
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Old 06-26-2010, 11:20 AM
 
Location: US
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harold Kupp View Post
I understand completely Verna. The failure to distinguish between willful sin and sins of ignorance makes it impossible to understand and reconcile all of the verses about sin.

For example, the apostle John said:


“…if any man sin we have an advocate…”

At the same time John also taught that the child of God did not *commit* sin:

1John 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin;

If the sin in 1John 2:1 is the same type of sin as 3:9 - John was would be contradicting himself because in verse 2:1 John says to the children of God “…if any man sin we have an advocate…” Yet in verse 3:9 John says “Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin.”

John is not contradicting himself – in 2:1 he is referring to sins of ignorance (which required atonement) and presumptuous (willful) sin in verse 3:9. John distinguished between unintentional sin in verse 2:1 and willful sin in verse 3:9 by using the word “commit”. To “commit” sin implies knowledge and intent.

HK
There is no sins of ignorance, all sin is willful...
Jas 4:16 But now ye rejoice in your boastings: all such rejoicing is evil.

Jas 4:17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

1Jn 1:8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

1Jn 5:16 If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.

1Jn 5:17 All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.
1Jn 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Rom 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
Rom 7:15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
Rom 7:16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
Rom 7:17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
Rom 7:19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
Rom 7:20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
Rom 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
Rom 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
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