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your reading it like Christ is the potential savior of all men.
.
"all men"??
I love how people can see what they want in that , and dont have a clue of the other means to view it...LOL
the word 'all' trips up lots of people, (Notice I didnt say all people)
It's like the Bible tells us that Eve is the mother of "all living'
well, plants are living right?
bugs a alive too correct?
Slugs, cows and sheep also are living too...
So there are lots of plants and animals, fish and bugs that are living, thus...well if Eve is the mother of all living she really got around.
I love how people can see what they want in that , and dont have a clue of the other means to view it...LOL
the word 'all' trips up lots of people, (Notice I didnt say all people)
It's like the Bible tells us that Eve is the mother of "all living'
well, plants are living right?
bugs a alive too correct?
Slugs, cows and sheep also are living too...
So there are lots of plants and animals, fish and bugs that are living, thus...well if Eve is the mother of all living she really got around.
The offer of salvation is universal.
The offer of salvation goes out to all men and it is not limited by time and space.
So we say that the offer of salvation is 'sufficient" for all men.
But the effectiveness of that offer?...it is extremely rare because of the number of they who dont believe.
thus we say that the offer of salvation is "efficient" only in the lives of the little flock of believers in Christ.
This is why we are sent on missions into the world, and told to repent, and believe...
Because if we dont, we are lost forever, and forever is a mighty long time...LOL
Yes, Alan, only so many are being saved today. I agree with you on that.
There are missionaries getting out there trying to save people. Many don't believe.
I wish I could somehow get you to understand that this evangelizing is for the age to come and the age afterward. Not all mankind are chosen to be believing for those next two ages/eons. But this does not mean that at the end of the ages they will be disenfranchised from salvation.
If that were the case then we would have real contradictions in the bible.
Alan, please research the word "ransom" in the whole old testament. Every human or animal that was ransomed had to be freed. They just had to be and were. Now go to the new testament. Christ ransomed all mankind (1 Timothy 2:6. He did not ask people if they would pretty please believe He ransomed them. They just were. It is too late, Alan. And so since Christ ransomed all mankind God will have all mankind to be saved (1 Timothy 2:4).
Choosing to believe is not in the reason as to why it is that God will have all mankind to be saved. Rather the reason given is that Christ ransomed all. It is too late, Alan. There is nothing anyone can do to escape being freed from bondage to sin and death. You just have to live with the good news. I realize you love the bad news of a God who purposely brought billions into existence for the sole purpose of eternally torturing them in flames. But is that really a god to worship and adore?
Whose God is more loving and victorious here, Alan?
I wish I could somehow get you to understand that this evangelizing is for the age to come and the age afterward. Not all mankind are chosen to be believing for those next two ages/eons. But this does not mean that at the end of the ages they will be disenfranchised from salvation.
If that were the case then we would have real contradictions in the bible.
Alan, please research the word "ransom" in the whole old testament. Every human or animal that was ransomed had to be freed. They just had to be and were. Now go to the new testament. Christ ransomed all mankind (1 Timothy 2:6. He did not ask people if they would pretty please believe He ransomed them. They just were. It is too late, Alan. And so since Christ ransomed all mankind God will have all mankind to be saved (1 Timothy 2:4).
Whose God is more loving and victorious here, Alan?
Eusebius,
I would also extend to you the offer to research the word "all". No were in the Greek or English does "all" means to have an exclusive group to it.
The error of assumming God's will is monothetic i.e. has but a single aspect is the foundation of UR. God does desire all be saved but he has determined that those who believe will be saved..and those who don't will not. Many scriptures have been shown that the unbeliever does not experience salvation.
The unbeliever (1 John 5:11-13) does not have this life, only Gods wrath. There is a big difference (1 Tim 2:4) between "all" will come to repentance versus "all" should come to repentance. God did not desire for sin to enter into the Garden of Eden, nor it is God's desire that Christian's still sin either. God is never desirous of sin.
It goes like this - John 3:16 (New International Version) "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.
So God loved the world...
That seems clear enough.
The "world" here I take to mean the world of men...I dont think the term "world" here is talking too much about trees and bugs...
So John 3:16 starts off by telling us that God loved mankind....
The last half of the verse gets tricky
"that whoever believes in him"
So now we see that while God does love mankind, (After all he made us all) we are now told that we who believe in His sent Son have eternal life.
This does not mean that all of mankind has eternal life, but it does point to the few who do, for they are said to be the ones who believe...
Every person on earth who was ever born will believe in Jesus and confess his name and woship him to the glory of the father. Of course you already know this but refuse to accept it. And aionios zoe is not properly translated as eternal life. It should be translated as life pertaining to the age/ages. Not everyone will have life pertaining to the ages, some will have correction pertaining to the ages, and then will be resurrected and will be made immortal along with those that believed in this life.
in every other area I could imagine a sentence like 1 Timothy 4 10 would be a fully inclusive statement.
Like if I was a school teacher, and said 'I'm rather fond of all my students, especially so and so'. That is not exclusive....that's inclusive.
But every exegesis under the sun want's to explain away the obvious. Most of Christendom would rather believe that then see God loving his creation and having the ways and means to redeem them.
Eusebius,
I would also extend to you the offer to research the word "all". No were in the Greek or English does "all" means to have an exclusive group to it.
The error of assumming God's will is monothetic i.e. has but a single aspect is the foundation of UR. God does desire all be saved but he has determined that those who believe will be saved..and those who don't will not. Many scriptures have been shown that the unbeliever does not experience salvation.
The unbeliever (1 John 5:11-13) does not have this life, only Gods wrath. There is a big difference (1 Tim 2:4) between "all" will come to repentance versus "all" should come to repentance. God did not desire for sin to enter into the Garden of Eden, nor it is God's desire that Christian's still sin either. God is never desirous of sin.
1Timothy 2:4 does not teach universal salvation.
You still refuse the to believe that gods wrath which is derived from his jealous love is for the purification and salvation of those that suffer it. They are saved as though by fire is what Paul teaches in 1 cor 3:15. So Gods wrath and the fire of his judgment is for salvation and not as you want to believe, for eternal torture.
Eusebius,
I would also extend to you the offer to research the word "all". No were in the Greek or English does "all" means to have an exclusive group to it.
The error of assumming God's will is monothetic i.e. has but a single aspect is the foundation of UR. God does desire all be saved but he has determined that those who believe will be saved..and those who don't will not. Many scriptures have been shown that the unbeliever does not experience salvation.
The unbeliever (1 John 5:11-13) does not have this life, only Gods wrath. There is a big difference (1 Tim 2:4) between "all" will come to repentance versus "all" should come to repentance. God did not desire for sin to enter into the Garden of Eden, nor it is God's desire that Christian's still sin either. God is never desirous of sin.
1Timothy 2:4 does not teach universal salvation.
Dear twin.spin, I agree with you that "all" does not always mean absolutely "a_l_l".
However, in 1 Timothy 2:4 there is just no way logically to make the "all" that God wills to save to be less than absolutely all mankind. It is actually, literally in the Greek "all humans." It is not logical to say "all humans" are just a select few.
Likewise look at Colossians 1:15-20 at all the alls in those passages. Please see that if you are going to make the "all" of verse 20 be less than absolutely "all" then you must also do that to all the other alls preceeding that all.
Likewise we know that literally all mankind were condemned due to what Adam did in Romans 5:18. Yet you go against all logic by making the second all mankind of verse 18 be less than the preceeding all. Or you put requirements on the 2nd all of the verse but no requirements on the first all. But verse 18 says "even as . . . thus also." So if there are no requirements in the first all then there are none in the second. Otherwise there is no logic to the "even as . . . thus also" of Paul's argument.
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