08-31-2009, 01:26 AM
Location: Seattle, Washington
6,805 posts, read 3,486,477
I don't believe in Satan.. or demons... care to show me my error?
Please provide some verses to help me understand why so many of you believe in Satan. I am inclined to think that it is a misunderstanding of the book of Job. However, I would love to be able to study the passages you provide for myself. Thanks!
08-31-2009, 04:52 AM
55 posts, read 39,176
my heart goes out to you so here are just a few verses to look up. when you finish these post again and i will list more.
(1st chronicles 21:1), (Job 1:6,7,8,9,12\ 2:1,2,3,4,6,7), (Psalms 109:6), (Zechariah 3:1,2),
(Mathew4:10, 12,26 16:23) (Mark 1:23, 3:23, 3:26, 4:15, 8:33) (Luke 4:8, 10:18, 11:18, 13:16, 22:3, 22:31,) (John 13:27) (Acts5,3, 26:18) (Romans16:20) (1Corinthians5:5, 7:5) (2corinthians2:11, 11:14, 12:7) (1Theselonian 2"18) (2Theselonians 2:9) (1 timothy1:20, 5:20)
(revelations 2:9,13,24, 3:9. 12:9, 20:2,7)
these verses are all related to satan wich is derived from the word meaning adversary, these verses are not the only verses pertaining to that being. He has many names and many identities this is only one of them.
As for demons you can find them but not called demons but the thought is that the angels cast out by with satan are the demons in modern thought. finally they do exsist and are out to kill not just the body but they seek to drag you kicking and screaming into the abyss where their punishment is foretold by Ged. It is good to have no belief in satan but you must know he exsists.
08-31-2009, 07:55 AM
Location: Small Town USA
1,233 posts, read 1,038,236
Here are verses about demons:
DEU 32:17 They sacrificed to demons, which are not God-- gods they had not
known, gods that recently appeared, gods your fathers did not fear.
JDG 9:23 God sent an evil spirit between Abimelech and the citizens of
Shechem, who acted treacherously against Abimelech.
1SA 16:14 Now the Spirit of the LORD had departed from Saul, and an evil
spirit from the LORD tormented him.
PSA 106:37 They sacrificed their sons and their daughters to demons.
8:16 When evening came, many who were demon-possessed were brought to him,
and he drove out the spirits with a word and healed all the sick.
28 When he arrived at the other side in the region of the Gadarenes, two
demon-possessed men coming from the tombs met him. They were so violent
that no one could pass that way.
29 "What do you want with us, Son of God?" they shouted. "Have you come
here to torture us before the appointed time?"
30 Some distance from them a large herd of pigs was feeding.
31 The demons begged Jesus, "If you drive us out, send us into the herd of
32 He said to them, "Go!" So they came out and went into the pigs, and the
whole herd rushed down the steep bank into the lake and died in the water.
33 Those tending the pigs ran off, went into the town and reported all
this, including what had happened to the demon-possessed men.
34 Then the whole town went out to meet Jesus. And when they saw him, they
pleaded with him to leave their region.
9:32 While they were going out, a man who was demon-possessed and could
not talk was brought to Jesus.
33 And when the demon was driven out, the man who had been mute spoke. The
crowd was amazed and said, "Nothing like this has ever been seen in
10:1 He called his twelve disciples to him and gave them authority to
drive out evil spirits and to heal every disease and sickness.
12:22 Then they brought him a demon-possessed man who was blind and mute,
and Jesus healed him, so that he could both talk and see.
43 "When an evil spirit comes out of a man, it goes through arid places
seeking rest and does not find it.
44 Then it says, 'I will return to the house I left.' When it arrives, it
finds the house unoccupied, swept clean and put in order.
45 Then it goes and takes with it seven other spirits more wicked than
itself, and they go in and live there. And the final condition of that man
is worse than the first. That is how it will be with this wicked
15:22 A Canaanite woman from that vicinity came to him, crying out, "Lord,
Son of David, have mercy on me! My daughter is suffering terribly from
23 Jesus did not answer a word. So his disciples came to him and urged
him, "Send her away, for she keeps crying out after us."
24 He answered, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel."
25 The woman came and knelt before him. "Lord, help me!" she said.
26 He replied, "It is not right to take the children's bread and toss it
to their dogs."
27 "Yes, Lord," she said, "but even the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from
their masters' table."
28 Then Jesus answered, "Woman, you have great faith! Your request is
granted." And her daughter was healed from that very hour.
29 Jesus left there and went along the Sea of Galilee. Then he went up on
a mountainside and sat down.
17:14 When they came to the crowd, a man approached Jesus and knelt before
15 "Lord, have mercy on my son," he said. "He has seizures and is
suffering greatly. He often falls into the fire or into the water.
16 I brought him to your disciples, but they could not heal him."
17 "O unbelieving and perverse generation," Jesus replied, "how long shall
I stay with you? How long shall I put up with you? Bring the boy here to
18 Jesus rebuked the demon, and it came out of the boy, and he was healed
from that moment.
25:41 "Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are
cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.
MAR 1:23 Just then a man in their synagogue who was possessed by an evil
spirit cried out,
24 "What do you want with us, Jesus of Nazareth? Have you come to destroy
us? I know who you are--the Holy One of God!"
25 "Be quiet!" said Jesus sternly. "Come out of him!"
26 The evil spirit shook the man violently and came out of him with a
3:11 Whenever the evil spirits saw him, they fell down before him and
cried out, "You are the Son of God."
22 And the teachers of the law who came down from Jerusalem said, "He is
possessed by Beelzebub! By the prince of demons he is driving out demons."
23 So Jesus called them and spoke to them in parables: "How can Satan
drive out Satan?
24 If a kingdom is divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand.
25 If a house is divided against itself, that house cannot stand.
26 And if Satan opposes himself and is divided, he cannot stand; his end
27 In fact, no one can enter a strong man's house and carry off his
possessions unless he first ties up the strong man. Then he can rob his
28 I tell you the truth, all the sins and blasphemies of men will be
29 But whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven;
he is guilty of an eternal sin."
30 He said this because they were saying, "He has an evil spirit."
5:2 When Jesus got out of the boat, a man with an evil spirit came from
the tombs to meet him.
3 This man lived in the tombs, and no one could bind him any more, not
even with a chain.
4 For he had often been chained hand and foot, but he tore the chains
apart and broke the irons on his feet. No one was strong enough to subdue
5 Night and day among the tombs and in the hills he would cry out and cut
himself with stones.
6 When he saw Jesus from a distance, he ran and fell on his knees in front
7 He shouted at the top of his voice, "What do you want with me, Jesus,
Son of the Most High God? Swear to God that you won't torture me!"
8 For Jesus had said to him, "Come out of this man, you evil spirit!"
9 Then Jesus asked him, "What is your name?" "My name is Legion," he
replied, "for we are many."
10 And he begged Jesus again and again not to send them out of the area.
11 A large herd of pigs was feeding on the nearby hillside.
12 The demons begged Jesus, "Send us among the pigs; allow us to go into
13 He gave them permission, and the evil spirits came out and went into
the pigs. The herd, about two thousand in number, rushed down the steep
bank into the lake and were drowned.
14 Those tending the pigs ran off and reported this in the town and
countryside, and the people went out to see what had happened.
15 When they came to Jesus, they saw the man who had been possessed by the
legion of demons, sitting there, dressed and in his right mind; and they
16 Those who had seen it told the people what had happened to the demon-
possessed man--and told about the pigs as well.
17 Then the people began to plead with Jesus to leave their region.
18 As Jesus was getting into the boat, the man who had been demon-
possessed begged to go with him.
19 Jesus did not let him, but said, "Go home to your family and tell them
how much the Lord has done for you, and how he has had mercy on you."
20 So the man went away and began to tell in the Decapolis how much Jesus
had done for him. And all the people were amazed.
6:7 Calling the Twelve to him, he sent them out two by two and gave them
authority over evil spirits.
7:25 In fact, as soon as she heard about him, a woman whose little
daughter was possessed by an evil spirit came and fell at his feet.
26 The woman was a Greek, born in Syrian Phoenicia. She begged Jesus to
drive the demon out of her daughter.
27 "First let the children eat all they want," he told her, "for it is not
right to take the children's bread and toss it to their dogs."
28 "Yes, Lord," she replied, "but even the dogs under the table eat the
29 Then he told her, "For such a reply, you may go; the demon has left
30 She went home and found her child lying on the bed, and the demon gone.
9:17 A man in the crowd answered, "Teacher, I brought you my son, who is
possessed by a spirit that has robbed him of speech.
18 Whenever it seizes him, it throws him to the ground. He foams at the
mouth, gnashes his teeth and becomes rigid. I asked your disciples to drive
out the spirit, but they could not."
19 "O unbelieving generation," Jesus replied, "how long shall I stay with
you? How long shall I put up with you? Bring the boy to me."
20 So they brought him. When the spirit saw Jesus, it immediately threw
the boy into a convulsion. He fell to the ground and rolled around, foaming
at the mouth.
21 Jesus asked the boy's father, "How long has he been like this?" "From
childhood," he answered.
22 "It has often thrown him into fire or water to kill him. But if you can
do anything, take pity on us and help us."
23 "'If you can'?" said Jesus. "Everything is possible for him who
24 Immediately the boy's father exclaimed, "I do believe; help me overcome
25 When Jesus saw that a crowd was running to the scene, he rebuked the
evil spirit. "You deaf and mute spirit," he said, "I command you, come out
of him and never enter him again."
26 The spirit shrieked, convulsed him violently and came out. The boy
looked so much like a corpse that many said, "He's dead."
27 But Jesus took him by the hand and lifted him to his feet, and he stood
28 After Jesus had gone indoors, his disciples asked him privately, "Why
couldn't we drive it out?"
29 He replied, "This kind can come out only by prayer."
38 "Teacher," said John, "we saw a man driving out demons in your name and
we told him to stop, because he was not one of us."
16:9 When Jesus rose early on the first day of the week, he appeared first
to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had driven seven demons.
17 And these signs will accompany those who believe: In my name they will
drive out demons; they will speak in new tongues;
LUK 4:7 So if you worship me, it will all be yours."
33 In the synagogue there was a man possessed by a demon, an evil spirit.
He cried out at the top of his voice,
34 "Ha! What do you want with us, Jesus of Nazareth? Have you come to
destroy us? I know who you are--the Holy One of God!"
35 "Be quiet!" Jesus said sternly. "Come out of him!" Then the demon threw
the man down before them all and came out without injuring him.
41 Moreover, demons came out of many people, shouting, "You are the Son of
God!" But he rebuked them and would not allow them to speak, because they
knew he was the Christ.
8:2 and also some women who had been cured of evil spirits and diseases:
Mary (called Magdalene) from whom seven demons had come out;
3 Joanna the wife of Cuza, the manager of Herod's household; Susanna; and
many others. These women were helping to support them out of their own
28 When he saw Jesus, he cried out and fell at his feet, shouting at the
top of his voice, "What do you want with me, Jesus, Son of the Most High
God? I beg you, don't torture me!"
9:37 The next day, when they came down from the mountain, a large crowd
38 A man in the crowd called out, "Teacher, I beg you to look at my son,
for he is my only child.
39 A spirit seizes him and he suddenly screams; it throws him into
convulsions so that he foams at the mouth. It scarcely ever leaves him and
is destroying him.
40 I begged your disciples to drive it out, but they could not."
41 "O unbelieving and perverse generation," Jesus replied, "how long shall
I stay with you and put up with you? Bring your son here."
42 Even while the boy was coming, the demon threw him to the ground in a
convulsion. But Jesus rebuked the evil spirit, healed the boy and gave him
back to his father.
10:17 The seventy-two returned with joy and said, "Lord, even the demons
submit to us in your name."
11:14 Jesus was driving out a demon that was mute. When the demon left,
the man who had been mute spoke, and the crowd was amazed.
JOH 7:20 "You are demon-possessed," the crowd answered. "Who is trying to
8:48 The Jews answered him, "Aren't we right in saying that you are a
Samaritan and demon-possessed?"
10:20 Many of them said, "He is demon-possessed and raving mad. Why listen
ACT 5:16 Crowds gathered also from the towns around Jerusalem, bringing
their sick and those tormented by evil spirits, and all of them were
8:7 With shrieks, evil spirits came out of many, and many paralytics and
cripples were healed.
16:16 Once when we were going to the place of prayer, we were met by a
slave girl who had a spirit by which she predicted the future. She earned a
great deal of money for her owners by fortune-telling.
17 This girl followed Paul and the rest of us, shouting, "These men are
servants of the Most High God, who are telling you the way to be saved."
18 She kept this up for many days. Finally Paul became so troubled that he
turned around and said to the spirit, "In the name of Jesus Christ I
command you to come out of her!" At that moment the spirit left her.
19:12 so that even handkerchiefs and aprons that had touched him were
taken to the sick, and their illnesses were cured and the evil spirits left
13 Some Jews who went around driving out evil spirits tried to invoke the
name of the Lord Jesus over those who were demon-possessed. They would say,
"In the name of Jesus, whom Paul preaches, I command you to come out."
14 Seven sons of Sceva, a Jewish chief priest, were doing this.
15 One day the evil spirit answered them, "Jesus I know, and I know about
Paul, but who are you?"
16 Then the man who had the evil spirit jumped on them and overpowered
them all. He gave them such a beating that they ran out of the house naked
1CO 10:20 No, but the sacrifices of pagans are offered to demons, not to
God, and I do not want you to be participants with demons.
21 You cannot drink the cup of the Lord and the cup of demons too; you
cannot have a part in both the Lord's table and the table of demons.
1TI 4:1 The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the
faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons.
JAM 2:19 You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe
2PE 2:4 For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to
hell, putting them into gloomy dungeons to be held for judgment;
JUD 1:6 And the angels who did not keep their positions of authority but
abandoned their own home--these he has kept in darkness, bound with
everlasting chains for judgment on the great Day.
REV 9:20 The rest of mankind that were not killed by these plagues still
did not repent of the work of their hands; they did not stop worshiping
demons, and idols of gold, silver, bronze, stone and wood--idols that
cannot see or hear or walk.
12:7 And there was war in heaven. Michael and his angels fought against
the dragon, and the dragon and his angels fought back.
8 But he was not strong enough, and they lost their place in heaven.
9 The great dragon was hurled down--that ancient serpent called the devil,
or Satan, who leads the whole world astray. He was hurled to the earth, and
his angels with him.
13:4 Men worshiped the dragon because he had given authority to the beast,
and they also worshiped the beast and asked, "Who is like the beast? Who
can make war against him?"
08-31-2009, 08:01 AM
5,260 posts, read 2,841,344
...well...I'd say that about covers it...
08-31-2009, 08:05 AM
Location: Small Town USA
1,233 posts, read 1,038,236
Before I started my Christian walk, and during the first part of it, I believed Satan was a metaphor for evil, evil in the world, evil in our flesh. Since then, God has taken me deeper and deeper into a relationship with him, and through His Grace, has given me faith.
I take Jesus at His Word . . . so, when Scripture reveals that Jesus spoke of and to Satan, if we beleive otherwise . . .that would be calling Jesus a liar, in my own view for myself.
(Isa 14:12-14 NNAS) "How you have fallen from heaven, O star of the morning, son of the dawn! You have been cut down to the earth, You who have weakened the nations! 13 "But you said in your heart, 'I will ascend to heaven; I will raise my throne above the stars of God, And I will sit on the mount of assembly In the recesses of the north. 14 'I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will make myself like the Most High.'"
(2 Cor 11:14 NNAS) "No wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light."
(Job 1:7 NNAS) "The LORD said to Satan, "From where do you come?" Then Satan answered the LORD and said, "From roaming about on the earth and walking around on it.""
(Job 2:6 NNAS) "So the LORD said to Satan, "Behold, he is in your power, only spare his life.""
(Mat 4:1 NNAS) "Then Jesus was led up by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil."
(Mark 4:15 NNAS) "These are the ones who are beside the road where the word is sown; and when they hear, immediately Satan comes and takes away the word which has been sown in them."
(Luke 13:16 NNAS) "And this woman, a daughter of Abraham as she is, whom Satan has bound for eighteen long years, should she not have been released from this bond on the Sabbath day?"
(Acts 5:3 NNAS) "But Peter said, "Ananias, why has Satan filled your heart to lie to the Holy Spirit and to keep back some of the price of the land?"
(Acts 26:18 NNAS) "to open their eyes so that they may turn from darkness to light and from the dominion of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who have been sanctified by faith in Me.'"
(Rom 16:20 NNAS) "The God of peace will soon crush Satan under your feet. The grace of our Lord Jesus be with you."
(2 Cor 12:7 NNAS) "Because of the surpassing greatness of the revelations, for this reason, to keep me from exalting myself, there was given me a thorn in the flesh, a messenger of Satan to torment me--to keep me from exalting myself!"
(2 Th 2:9-10 NNAS) "that is, the one whose coming is in accord with the activity of Satan, with all power and signs and false wonders, 10 and with all the deception of wickedness for those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth so as to be saved."
(1 John 4:4 NNAS) "You are from God, little children, and have overcome them; because greater is He who is in you than he who is in the world."
(Rev 20:10 NNAS) "And the devil who deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are also; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever."
08-31-2009, 08:47 AM
768 posts, read 451,178
Here is the problem as I see it when it comes to quoting scripture to "prove" that Satan exists. We must remember that scripture was copied by scribes. They did not have printing presses when the books of the Bible were written and copied. The copying had to be done by hand. Copies were important because the original texts would only last so long and it was important to have copies to circulate around to the various churches and synagogues.
These copies were eventually hand copied as well and so on until the invention of the printing press in the fifteenth century. As careful as these scribes were, it is not inconceivable that they would make errors due to fatigue, etc. In fact it would be harder to believe that they wouldn't make errors. Scholars have found texts that when compared to older texts of the same scripture, entire sentences were sometimes missing.
In addition to accidental errors, sometimes scribes intentionally changed words or sentences in order to "clarify" a particular passage. But in doing so, they have changed the original text. Also, scholars who compared more recent copies with older ones have noticed that sometimes the text was changed in order to make it more orthodox and say what the church wanted it to say. This was particularly common during the great christological debates of the third and forth centuries. Often a verse in its older text would come across to support a view that Christ was not God, etc., so scribes would change it to make it more orthodox.
My point is, trying to prove Satan exists by scripture is a futile exercise because we do not have the original texts. We have copies of copies of copies which have errors, additions and deletions.
08-31-2009, 08:58 AM
Location: Small Town USA
1,233 posts, read 1,038,236
My belief is that Jesus, is the Word of God, the Word was with God.
Scripture is inspired, that is, that God is responsible for writing it. Inspiration differs from dictation, where God dictates the words of the Bible to a person who, as it were, is in a trance. But inspiration does not work this way. Read Luke 1:1-4 and answer the following:
1. Is Luke an eyewitness of the events in his gospel?
2. How did other writers get their information?
3. How did Luke get his information?
4. Where did Luke get the information in Luke 1 and 2?
5. Does Luke claim to write a chronological account?
Luke is an eyewitness to some of the events in the second volume of his work (Acts), 4 but he is not present at the events he records in the gospel of Luke. Luke would have had a number of resources available to him, including eyewitnesses (such as Peter and other apostles) and the Jerusalem archives (e.g., the Apostolic Decree of Acts 15:22-29). Like other writers, Luke would have had to do research to get his information.
At the time Luke writes his gospel, almost everyone in those two chapters is dead. Jesus is, of course, alive, having ascended into heaven. Probably Luke's source is Mary herself. She would have known what she and the angel Gabriel discussed, what Elizabeth said when Mary visited her, and she alone would have known what she "pondered in her heart" when the shepherds came to the manger (Luke 2:19).
Although we cannot prove it, Luke could very well have interviewed Mary personally. If Luke wrote Luke and Acts during Paul's Roman imprisonment (A.D. 60-62), and if Mary gave birth to Jesus when she was in her early or middle teen years, she would only have been in her early eighties at the time of the interview. Tradition locates her in her later years in Ephesus where the beloved disciple, John, conducted his ministry. This would have been close enough to Rome for Luke to make the journey without seriously interrupting his time with Paul . . . .
In his introduction Luke claims to write an ''orderly'' account. . .
Inspiration is not like dictation, but a more personal and subtle guidance of the writer to set down exactly the words God has chosen. The writer uses all his faculties and abilities in the process.
The point is this: Jesus, the Word of God (John 1: 1-18), is both human and divine. Scriptures, the written word of God, also have a divine side (origin, inspiration) and a human side (the authors and their world). Part of the adventure of Bible study is the investigation into the world of the authors of the books in the Bible. The things we learn equip us to understand more fully what we are reading.
08-31-2009, 09:00 AM
Location: Small Town USA
1,233 posts, read 1,038,236
"Why do you not understand what I say?
It is because you cannot bear to hear My word.
You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father's desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, and has nothing to do with the truth, because there is no truth in him.
When he lies, he speaks according to his own nature, for he is a liar and the father of lies." (John 8:43-44 RSV)
08-31-2009, 09:04 AM
589 posts, read 709,284
If you believe in God you must also believe his words. He said he created the angels with free will and a third of them rebelled... led by Satan!
08-31-2009, 10:45 AM
2,250 posts, read 2,039,627
Turn on the news, and you'll see plenty of satan and his demons at work.
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