U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 09-03-2009, 05:17 PM
 
6,221 posts, read 6,402,926 times
Reputation: 682

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post
Look at what Jesus was trying to imply without saying, "Well, He omitted this so it must not be true" stuff. Jesus said simply, "live for the world, lose your soul." Lose means lose. When you say, " I lost my wallet, it means just that: it's gone.

But this is what I don't get. If you are arguing "Lose means lose" - your soul is gone... then that would mean you have ceased to exists AKA annihilation - because without a soul, you don't exist.

How you make the leap to eternal torment is what I don't understand. I could understand if you were arguing for annihilation, because that is what the verse seems to suggest (when taken alone).

You aren't being consistent in your argument. If the soul is gone, then that is non-existence, not torture.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 09-03-2009, 05:19 PM
 
6,221 posts, read 6,402,926 times
Reputation: 682
Quote:
Originally Posted by I LOVE NORTH CAROLINA View Post




You can't, I can't, but God can
Verna, ILNC, thrill-o-byte, we are praying for you too. Only God can open ones eyes to the truth.

I believed as you all did for 30 years, but no more. God revealed a greater plan to me - something better than watching most of humanity burn for eternity.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-03-2009, 06:16 PM
 
5,925 posts, read 5,681,073 times
Reputation: 639
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post
Phaze, we're not looking to pick Jesus' words apart with conjugations of Jesus' verbs, use of dangling prepositions, mistakes in usage of subject/predicate nominatives, etc. We're looking at what Jesus was implying with this simple phrase, "lose your soul". Now if you want to go on with
I addressed your argument that this "one" verse proves eternal torment. There is nothing complicated here. The ONE verse does not contain words that prove eternal torment.



Quote:
then it becomes a tedious exercise in he said/she said
It is only tedious for you as you realize your argument does not hold up, you try to use all kinds of other means to hide that fact.


Quote:
As Verna said, back and forth, back and forth. And to what purpose, phaze, except to get a few laugh enjoying the sparring with one another?
This sparring is completely on You and Verna, rather than address the simple responce I made concerning your argument, you both decided that making condescending remarks was appropriate. Personally those do not offend me, but if your going to use them to pretend your loving towards me and if your going to try to depict this as my problem I will point out where the blame lies.



Quote:
Who knows what the external circumstances will bring.

Well, your OP says this one verse proves that eternal torment is the answer. Obviously it doesn't.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-03-2009, 06:22 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,383,615 times
Reputation: 1690
Quote:
Originally Posted by Verna Perry View Post
God knows your heart thrillobyte..The Truth is within you. I stand with you, believing that you will be one who dies an overcomer!......live it out in your life...we are not promised a tomorrow...so be sure. The LORD said, "If you love Me , keep my commandments." If you don't already, start obeying His commandments...all ten of them, including the Sabbath.

God Bless you,
Love,
Verna.
Oh God, save us! You do realize the same Jesus stated that the Ten Commandments are Old and he came with a new message that is greater And are summed up in two commandments... Some hogwash about loving one another! Also that same Jesus told the Pharisees that keeping the Law and the Sabbath was useless. I'm on my phone or I would quote the verses for ya.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-03-2009, 06:32 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,383,615 times
Reputation: 1690
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post
You're way off on a tangent, katjon. Let's keep it on point.
Hmmmm, I corrected your quote of the verse in question. Then proceeded to use the same logic on the verses surrounding it. That's a crazy wild tangent. Define tangent for me? Or did you just read the last line then respond?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-03-2009, 06:55 PM
 
5,733 posts, read 4,579,401 times
Reputation: 4148
Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
Oh God, save us! You do realize the same Jesus stated that the Ten Commandments are Old and he came with a new message that is greater And are summed up in two commandments... Some hogwash about loving one another! Also that same Jesus told the Pharisees that keeping the Law and the Sabbath was useless. I'm on my phone or I would quote the verses for ya.

Exactly.

You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind. This is the greatest and the first commandment. The second resembles it: You shall love your neighbour as yourself.


Those who are chained to the law do not have God's commandments written on their hearts. When Jesus 2 commandments are written on your heart... there is no NEED for the law.

NO NEED.

I love my husband.
Do I need a law that tells me "do not cheat on your husband".
Of course NOT! I love my husband... and such a thing would not even enter into my mind. My God!!

LOVE NEEDS NO LAW.



LOVE CONQUERS ALL.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-03-2009, 07:30 PM
 
10,179 posts, read 10,538,351 times
Reputation: 3016
Quote:
Originally Posted by legoman View Post
But this is what I don't get. If you are arguing "Lose means lose" - your soul is gone... then that would mean you have ceased to exists AKA annihilation - because without a soul, you don't exist.

How you make the leap to eternal torment is what I don't understand. I could understand if you were arguing for annihilation, because that is what the verse seems to suggest (when taken alone).

You aren't being consistent in your argument. If the soul is gone, then that is non-existence, not torture.
Now you've gotten to the crux, lego. Whether it's annihilation, or eternal torment, it makes no difference. Whatever it is, it means lost. Take your pick. Jesus didn't feel the need to spell out the particulars, just that something irretrievable/irreversible occurs, which is a heck of a lot different from UR. which suggests something is lost and then found.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-03-2009, 07:35 PM
 
Location: Florida
5,261 posts, read 6,232,976 times
Reputation: 837
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post
Now you've gotten to the crux, lego. Whether it's annihilation, or eternal torment, it makes no difference. Whatever it is, it means lost. Take your pick. Jesus didn't feel the need to spell out the particulars, just that something irretrievable/irreversible occurs, which is a heck of a lot different from UR. which suggests something is lost and then found.
...Amen.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-03-2009, 07:37 PM
 
10,179 posts, read 10,538,351 times
Reputation: 3016
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phazelwood View Post
I addressed your argument that this "one" verse proves eternal torment. There is nothing complicated here. The ONE verse does not contain words that prove eternal torment.





It is only tedious for you as you realize your argument does not hold up, you try to use all kinds of other means to hide that fact.




This sparring is completely on You and Verna, rather than address the simple responce I made concerning your argument, you both decided that making condescending remarks was appropriate. Personally those do not offend me, but if your going to use them to pretend your loving towards me and if your going to try to depict this as my problem I will point out where the blame lies.






Well, your OP says this one verse proves that eternal torment is the answer. Obviously it doesn't.
Phaze and Kat, see my last response to lego. That sums it better than getting into a sparring match with you on a word by word basis. Too much work, and for what? Refer to Verna's first post for the answer to that rhetorical question.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-03-2009, 07:38 PM
 
5,925 posts, read 5,681,073 times
Reputation: 639
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post
which suggests something is lost and then found.

The parable of the Lost Sheep.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top