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Old 09-13-2009, 08:09 PM
 
3,553 posts, read 4,374,504 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
I've never heard of the soul dying only the man with the soul... are there verses that outline this? I guess I missed them. Thanks.
Brethren, if anyone among you(CHRISTIANS) wanders from the TRUTH, and someone turns him back, let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins.
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Old 09-13-2009, 08:18 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by legoman View Post
Death is not the end (nor is it annihilation).

Jesus defeats death. There will be a resurrection - all will be made alive. Death will not have victory.
Death is dead. Be it the first death, the second death, or eternal death. Death is death.

I don't claim to have it all figured out. I just know that UR doesn't hold up as the Truth. ET has a better chance than UR does.

What is in a weird sort of way,,all 3 were true?

Believers are made alive,,ALL of them. Believers who did not do the will of the Father are tormented. Non believers will just cease to exist. And other believers who are True to the Word, Christ are welcomed into the Gates to partake of the Tree of Life. Shoot, I have no earthly idea, and until the Father gives this to me, revealed completely, I will never know until I am resurrected.

BTW, Did you happen to see this verse?

Daniel 12:2
And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, Some to everlasting life, Some to shame and everlasting contempt.

It doesn't say "all" in any of the three parts. Many and some.
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Old 09-13-2009, 08:31 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,392,881 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HotinAZ View Post
Well, the greek definitions indicate this. How else would a soul "die"?
I've never heard of the soul dying only the man with the soul... are there verses that outline this? I guess I missed them. Thanks.
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Old 09-13-2009, 09:25 PM
 
3,553 posts, read 4,374,504 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
I've never heard of the soul dying only the man with the soul... are there verses that outline this? I guess I missed them. Thanks.
Brethren, if anyone among you(CHRISTIANS) wanders from the TRUTH, and someone turns him back, let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins.
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Old 09-13-2009, 10:51 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,392,881 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HotinAZ View Post
Brethren, if anyone among you(CHRISTIANS) wanders from the TRUTH, and someone turns him back, let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins.
Ok do you understand the definition of soul?

"The most common conception of the nature of man is that man has an immortal soul and/or spirit within him that can be conscious after death. This was the understanding of the Greek philosophers, the Pharisees of Jesusís day, and numerous pagan religions. But was this the understanding of the Bible writers?" The Soul and Spirit: Greek and Hebrew Word Studies

The word for soul in the OT nephesh is translated as soul, any, appetite, beast, body, breath, creature, dead, dead body, desire, fish,life, lust, man, mind, person, themselves, etc..

If you read through the article listed above and cross reference it with Strongs you will see that soul just means you are living...The NT word psychēis also translated as life.

The bible was written with a whole different set of word values and that should be kept in mind as we read it.
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Old 09-13-2009, 11:10 PM
 
40 posts, read 37,425 times
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The only soul that can inhabit God's eternity is a perfect one. Find me the verse that says Adam was created in God's image. Better yet, find me the passage that says the man created on the 6th day is named Adam. The purpose of judgement, not being simply being born, is to make man in the image of God so that he is fitting of such a destiny. Furthermore, nowhere does it say that man makes himself in the image of God. It's all God's doing : )
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Old 09-14-2009, 03:41 AM
 
Location: Redding, Ca
1,240 posts, read 1,023,085 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HotinAZ View Post
I have never believed it was a person. Rather the Greek indicates a people. Sons of destruction.
The fact that death came by one man to all mankind, then death reigned to all mankind.
I other words, the man of perdition is represented as one or all mankind because, unless God takes action to save mankind, none would be saved.

Then again, the one man (Again representative of all mankind) becomes sin for all mankind and only that one instead of all mankind is the one and only one lost.
Thus the man of perdition as one man (Lost)who dies in place of all mankind saves mankind from eternal annihilation torment.

Jesus, a perfect man, the Son of God by spiritual birth, yet the son of man by fleshly birth is condemned in place of all humanity as one and not all.

Thus the Son of perdition is the one man Jesus, who perfect, yet iniquity was found in Him as the sins of the world.

Condemned in our place to eternal annihilation.

But God would not leave His soul in hell but raise Him up again on the third day conquering eternal death or us all.

It is common sense that not all peoples of the world can recognize that fact, the fact that they can be liberated in Jesus, because of all the differing religious beliefs.

Not only the ones after the cross, but what about all those who lived and died before the cross?

If life is given freely to only those who know it, then that would exclude all previous souls prior to the cross.

But God sent Jesus to hell to visit them so that they too would not be left out of the equation of salvation.

There are individual scriptures that indicate that eternal torment and the loss of salvation are components of eternal damnation.

But if we really consider the mission of Christ as the man, the perfect man, marked and when found should be punished 7 fold.

7 is the number of creation and punishing 7 fold is to include in the sacrifice the whole creation, from day one of Adam to all future yet unborn souls.

That is the beauty of God's work, that He has given us the privilege of experiencing God like status in the flesh, yet without eternal banishment for that privileged.

But because of the flesh we must experience life and by the experience, come to know God through suffering.

That is the summation, the object of this life's experience that God so loved the world He created, that He also is saving it.

One scripture that ties all that together is Romans 8:20.

Take that verse and all that has transpired since Adam and a clear picture arises of Gods work in our behalf.

All other beliefs on the subject are necessary as no clear picture can be found unless opposing views challenge us to seek a deeper understanding.

That's how I have come to view it and have a much deeper appreciation for God's work and what we as citizens of His kingdom can labor to shine the light in a dark world.

lessings, AJ
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Old 09-14-2009, 06:15 AM
 
3,553 posts, read 4,374,504 times
Reputation: 580
Quote:
Originally Posted by Truthseeker777 View Post
The only soul that can inhabit God's eternity is a perfect one. Find me the verse that says Adam was created in God's image. Better yet, find me the passage that says the man created on the 6th day is named Adam. The purpose of judgement, not being simply being born, is to make man in the image of God so that he is fitting of such a destiny. Furthermore, nowhere does it say that man makes himself in the image of God. It's all God's doing : )
I actually agree with all your points here.
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Old 09-14-2009, 06:29 AM
 
3,553 posts, read 4,374,504 times
Reputation: 580
Quote:
Originally Posted by look3467 View Post
The fact that death came by one man to all mankind, then death reigned to all mankind.
I other words, the man of perdition is represented as one or all mankind because, unless God takes action to save mankind, none would be saved.

Then again, the one man (Again representative of all mankind) becomes sin for all mankind and only that one instead of all mankind is the one and only one lost.
Thus the man of perdition as one man (Lost)who dies in place of all mankind saves mankind from eternal annihilation torment.

Jesus, a perfect man, the Son of God by spiritual birth, yet the son of man by fleshly birth is condemned in place of all humanity as one and not all.

Thus the Son of perdition is the one man Jesus, who perfect, yet iniquity was found in Him as the sins of the world.

Condemned in our place to eternal annihilation.

But God would not leave His soul in hell but raise Him up again on the third day conquering eternal death or us all.

It is common sense that not all peoples of the world can recognize that fact, the fact that they can be liberated in Jesus, because of all the differing religious beliefs.

Not only the ones after the cross, but what about all those who lived and died before the cross?

If life is given freely to only those who know it, then that would exclude all previous souls prior to the cross.

But God sent Jesus to hell to visit them so that they too would not be left out of the equation of salvation.

There are individual scriptures that indicate that eternal torment and the loss of salvation are components of eternal damnation.

But if we really consider the mission of Christ as the man, the perfect man, marked and when found should be punished 7 fold.

7 is the number of creation and punishing 7 fold is to include in the sacrifice the whole creation, from day one of Adam to all future yet unborn souls.

That is the beauty of God's work, that He has given us the privilege of experiencing God like status in the flesh, yet without eternal banishment for that privileged.

But because of the flesh we must experience life and by the experience, come to know God through suffering.

That is the summation, the object of this life's experience that God so loved the world He created, that He also is saving it.

One scripture that ties all that together is Romans 8:20.

Take that verse and all that has transpired since Adam and a clear picture arises of Gods work in our behalf.

All other beliefs on the subject are necessary as no clear picture can be found unless opposing views challenge us to seek a deeper understanding.

That's how I have come to view it and have a much deeper appreciation for God's work and what we as citizens of His kingdom can labor to shine the light in a dark world.

lessings, AJ
Quote:
Thus the Son of perdition is the one man Jesus, who perfect, yet iniquity was found in Him as the sins of the world.
Huh?

While I was with them in the world, I kept them in Your name. Those whom You gave Me I have kept; and none of them is lost except the son of perdition, that the Scripture might be fulfilled.

I must say that I disagree with this. You are making it out that Jesus is actuallly anti-Christ in nature.

Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.

These verses indicate it is not Jesus. Jesus is not the "man of sin". He doesn't oppose God. He never once exalted Himself above God.
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Old 09-14-2009, 08:08 AM
 
Location: Somewhere out there
9,616 posts, read 11,071,718 times
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Default Natural, curious thought punished?

Quote:
Originally Posted by legoman View Post
Rifleman,

Yes, there is a small but growing segment of Christians who have realized that the bible does not teach eternal hell or torment (or even annihilation) for anyone.

As an athiest, not sure if you were aware of that or not.
I was aware of the Jehova's Witness' "take" on it, but generally have seen the common belief is one of the surety of hell for those who do not "behave" appropriately. If there's a less literal perspective, I applaud it.

The next question would then be; if one is simply not a believer, because of how God organized the thinking and conclusions of an individual, why would that person, an atheist for example, go to hell simply for being an inquisitive, curious person who does not want to just follow the crowd?

As in: me.
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