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I wonder why no one wants to discuss Scripture? I've noticed not a word from any of you "like-minded folks" in answer to this...
...hmmmmmm....I wonder why that is?.......would any of you care to address this post?
Your posts are usually way to long to read and like you mentioned in an earlier post about giving up trying to get people(meaning those who believe in UR) to see your point of view and interpretation of scripture , (because really that's all it is ) .
Personally trying to debate someone who talks up the 10 commandments to the point where it cannot be taking any other way but a works based self righteous gospel , disguised occasionally with a bit of NT jargon is simply a waste of time when you are so deep seated in .
We are accepted in the beloved (Ephesians 1 verse 6) and it has nothing to do with any form of "keeping", no matter how much you want to cut it.
I wonder why no one wants to discuss Scripture? I've noticed not a word from any of you "like-minded folks" in answer to this...
I will take a stab at it in the next post. But it was you in post #6 who said you didn't want to discuss this.
You even said this:
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I've learned a wonderful principle, (and it took me much too long to learn). You'll learn it as well, which is: Until God is ready to open their eyes...it's not going to happen.
I believe this too, but I find it hard to see that you actually believe this. If you believe that no one can understand until God opens their eyes, then you must also believe that God purposely blinds people forever just so they will be annihilated/tormented forever. Is that the God you believe in? One who blinds people just so He can seal their fate and annihilate them or torture them forever?
Plain and stark as day. No aions or anions or forevers or eternals or eternities or any references to length for UR'ers to wiggle around with arguments of, "Well the original texts use "eon" and "era" which denotes a limited duration of time."
Nope. Jesus gives us a simple truth: live for the world and work to gain it, and you lose your soul. No ifs ands or buts. Did Jesus anywhere imply in that short sentence that if you gain the world you lose your soul for only an eon or two? When I advice someone not to carry their keys around in their hands because they might lose them, is my warning interpreted as only losing them temporarily because some good soul might find them and return them, or do I mean they might lose them permanently? I think it's pretty clear Jesus was saying you lose your soul forever, and that NOTanion!
Do universalists believe that guys like Dahmer, Gaycie, Bundy, or even Manson will be saved??? Of course they do, otherwise it wouldn't be universal salvation. Now, if that is not the belief that one can live as they please and still will be saved then I don't know what is!!!! This carnal mind BS, and we are too loved to perish crap could only be a satan created religion. Nobody is saying you worship satan or that you will burn to death on the last day (at least I'm not). I am not the judge nor do I judge!! I just like to help people to understand God's truth!!! OBSERVE:
Psalm 97:2 Clouds and darkness are round about him: righteousness and judgement are the habitation of his throne.
Psalm 119:172 My tongue shall speak of thy word: for ALL thy commandments are righteousness.
This means the that God's commandments are at the foundation of his throne. Lets move on:
Hebrews 1:8 But unto the Son he saith, thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever : a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom..
A sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of God the Son's kingdom!!!
So Jesus will rule over his subjects with a sceptre of righteousness!!!
We just found out that righteousness is God's commandments.
But lets take it a little further:
Psalm 119:142 Thy righteousness is an everlasting righteousness, and thy law is the truth.
Psalm 119:151 Thou art near, O Lord; and ALL thy commandments are truth.
There you have it!!!! No other links!!! No third party!!!!! Straight from the Bible!!!!
It just doesn't get more clear than that people!!!!!
I will take a stab at it in the next post. But it was you in post #6 who said you didn't want to discuss this.
You even said this:
I believe this too, but I find it hard to see that you actually believe this. If you believe that no one can understand until God opens their eyes, then you must also believe that God purposely blinds people forever just so they will be annihilated/tormented forever. Is that the God you believe in? One who blinds people just so He can seal their fate and annihilate them or torture them forever?
God does not blind the people!!! That would be satan!! God will open everyones eyes to His truth, but wether or not they choose to blindly follow satan or be open to see God is totally up to them and their free will!!!
I wonder why no one wants to discuss Scripture? I've noticed not a word from any of you "like-minded folks" in answer to this...
...hmmmmmm....I wonder why that is?.......would any of you care to address this post?
No one like minded with Thrill comes out and admits the premise of the OP is error. Pots and Kettles.
Let's address scripture, then scripture alone will raise a theological problem.
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Read what 2 Thessalonians 1:7-9 says:
(10)When He shall come to be glorified IN HIS SAINTS, and to be admired IN ALL THEM THAT BELIEVE (because our testimony among you was believed) IN THAT DAY.<<(which is the Day of The LORD).
You emphasize "in all them that believe"
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Ja 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
When many christians want to think they are right, they say, WELL THATS CRYSTAL CLEAR NOW ISN'T IT?
Then we have another issue. We hear the phrase "Gods word" and of course they post a scripture telling us what Gods word says. Wonderful.
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9)Who SHALL BE PUNISHED WITH EVERLASTING DESTRUCTION FROM THE PRESENCE OF THE LORD, and from the glory of His power.
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2Th 1:9 who shall incur the justice of age-bearing extermination from the face of the Lord, and from the glory of His strength
So now the argument can either remain in scripture or we will have to pit against one another to say which translation is right which will take us away from scripture.
Can you answer how to remain in scripture given the appearance of these opposites? I can, and most universalists don't even like my answer.
Do universalists believe that guys like Dahmer, Gaycie, Bundy, or even Manson will be saved??? Of course they do, otherwise it wouldn't be universal salvation.
What is the significance of these names? Are you saying your saved because you did not do what they did?
What is the significance of these names? Are you saying your saved because you did not do what they did?
No, just stating that these are men who are obviously EVIL! No man with God would commit such acts as these men did. I'm not stating nothing more than that!!!
...and whatever is indicated as being eternal or perpetual or everlasting in a negative sense, as in fire, torment, condemnation, damnation and judgement; or in a positive sense, as in life and salvation, will manifest after the resurrection from the first death, at the Great White Throne of Judgement.
Ok. Not sure your point.
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Let's look at what John 5:24-29 says:
(24)Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but IS PASSED FROM DEATH UNTO LIFE.
(25)Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, WHEN THE DEAD SHALL HEAR THE VOICE OF THE SON OF GOD: AND THEY THAT HEAR SHALL LIVE.
(26)For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself.
(27)And hath given him authority to execute judgement also, because he is the Son of man.
(28)MARVEL NOT AT THIS: FOR THE HOUR IS COMING, IN THE WHICH ALL THAT ARE IN THE GRAVES SHALL HEAR HIS VOICE,
(29)AND SHALL COME FORTH; THEY THAT HAVE DONE GOOD, UNTO THE RESURRECTION OF LIFE; AND THEY THAT HAVE DONE EVIL, UNTO THE RESURRECTION OF DAMNATION.
Yes, all will be resurrected. Some to life for the eons and some to judgment for the eons.
John 5:29 and they shall come forth; those who did the good things to a rising again of life, and those who practised the evil things to a rising again of judgment.
Its not DAMNATION, but JUDGMENT. Guess who will be judging them? Those resurrected to life.
Here we run into the trouble of definitons, as most people assume judgment=hell. But scripture shows that judgment is for correction.
Isaiah 26:9 When your judgments come upon the earth,
the people of the world learn righteousness.
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Revelation 2:11 says: He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.
Yes. That is because they have already overcome their sin, they have already been judged and corrected in this life and were raised incorruptible.
The second death is the lake of fire. The second death is judgment by fire, same as described here:
1 Cor 3:15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.
Notice the man will be hurt - he suffers loss, but he is saved. Those who have already overcome are not hurt by it because they have no further bad works to burn up.
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...some, who died their first death as an overcomer of sin while they lived, will be resurrected from this first death unto eternal life...and those who died their first death in sin, shall be resurrected unto eternal damnation...eternal condemnation...eternal judgement.
Its eonian, not eternal. Judgment that lasts forever is purposeless. Judgment always has a purpose: to punish, chastize, correct, and make righteous.
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...Read what 2 Thessalonians 1:7-9 says:
(7)And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with His mighty angels,
(8)In flaming fire, taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
(9)Who SHALL BE PUNISHED WITH EVERLASTING DESTRUCTION FROM THE PRESENCE OF THE LORD, and from the glory of His power.
(10)When He shall come to be glorified IN HIS SAINTS, and to be admired IN ALL THEM THAT BELIEVE (because our testimony among you was believed) IN THAT DAY.<<(which is the Day of The LORD).
Its not everlasting, its eonian. Read YLT:
2 Thes 1:9 who shall suffer justice -- destruction age-during -- from the face of the Lord, and from the glory of his strength
Its not punishment, but justice, and its not forever, but only pertaining to ages.
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Bottom Line:
If you die in sin...when you are resurrected for judgement at the Great White Throne of Judgement...you are resurrected unto eternal damnation....eternal condemnation...eternal judgement.
If you die an overcomer of sin...when you are resurrected for judgement at the Great White Throne of Judgement...you are resurrected unto life eternal in the Kingdom of God.
This is your opinion based on a mistranslated word. You must understand that "eternal" is a mistranslation. If you do not understand this basic fact (YES it is a FACT), you will not understand God's plan.
Furthermore, you must understand that the only way you can overcome sin is if God leads you to overcome your sin. So what makes you more special than some other person who never heard of Jesus? God is not a respector of persons.
Finally, all scripture must be viewed in light of the fact that God has told us that He will have all people to be saved, and He will do it (1 Tim 2:3-4). God is not wishy-washy or unable to perform His will and desire. God will save all - He is willing and able.
Anyway I'm sorry we will disagree on this. I have a feeling it is meant to be that way for now. Be well Verna.
No, just stating that these are men who are obviously EVIL! No man with God would commit such acts as these men did. I'm not stating nothing more than that!!!
GOD BLESS!!!
ALMOST2L8
So what sin will men of God commit then?
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...would any of you care to address this post?
