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Uhhhh, no thanks, I pass...been there, done that...done!
You will learn, as I have, to not waste your time and your energy with those who think this way. You'll go round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round.....in never-ending circles.....only to end nowhere beyond where you initially began...pointless...literally.
I've learned a wonderful principle, (and it took me much too long to learn). You'll learn it as well, which is: Until God is ready to open their eyes...it's not going to happen. So, reply with the Truth of God's Word , and let it stand on it's own...because it will.
I've also learned to just continue on as if I didn't even see these type of replies...you'll feel better for it...I do. It doesn't matter how hard you try...they will not get it until God says they will.
They don't "see"...they haven't been enlightened...someday, hopefully, they'll understand the truth...if and when that occurs, will be determined by God alone...because faith comes from above.
Keep them in your prayers...I do.
In Love,
Verna.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte
You're probably right, Verna. It's just that I feel for these poor deluded souls. I want to shake them out of the error of their beliefs.
There is a first death, and there is a second death...
...and whatever is indicated as being eternal or perpetual or everlasting in a negative sense, as in fire, torment, condemnation, damnation and judgement; or in a positive sense, as in life and salvation, will manifest after the resurrection from the first death, at the Great White Throne of Judgement.
Let's look at what John 5:24-29 says:
(24)Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but IS PASSED FROM DEATH UNTO LIFE.
(25)Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, WHEN THE DEAD SHALL HEAR THE VOICE OF THE SON OF GOD: AND THEY THAT HEAR SHALL LIVE.
(26)For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself.
(27)And hath given him authority to execute judgement also, because he is the Son of man.
(28)MARVEL NOT AT THIS: FOR THE HOUR IS COMING, IN THE WHICH ALL THAT ARE IN THE GRAVES SHALL HEAR HIS VOICE,
(29)AND SHALL COME FORTH; THEY THAT HAVE DONE GOOD, UNTO THE RESURRECTION OF LIFE; AND THEY THAT HAVE DONE EVIL, UNTO THE RESURRECTION OF DAMNATION.
Revelation 2:11 says: He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.
...some, who died their first death as an overcomer of sin while they lived, will be resurrected from this first death unto eternal life...and those who died their first death in sin, shall be resurrected unto eternal damnation...eternal condemnation...eternal judgement.
...Read what 2 Thessalonians 1:7-9 says:
(7)And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with His mighty angels,
(8)In flaming fire, taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
(9)Who SHALL BE PUNISHED WITH EVERLASTING DESTRUCTION FROM THE PRESENCE OF THE LORD, and from the glory of His power.
(10)When He shall come to be glorified IN HIS SAINTS, and to be admired IN ALL THEM THAT BELIEVE (because our testimony among you was believed) IN THAT DAY.<<(which is the Day of The LORD).
Bottom Line:
If you die in sin...when you are resurrected for judgement at the Great White Throne of Judgement...you are resurrected unto eternal damnation....eternal condemnation...eternal judgement.
If you die an overcomer of sin...when you are resurrected for judgement at the Great White Throne of Judgement...you are resurrected unto life eternal in the Kingdom of God.
Matthew 18
9 And if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, rather than having two eyes to be cast into hell fire.
...and whatever is indicated as being eternal or perpetual or everlasting in a negative sense, as in fire, torment, condemnation, damnation and judgement; or in a positive sense, as in life and salvation, will manifest after the resurrection from the first death, at the Great White Throne of Judgement.
Let's look at what John 5:24-29 says:
(24)Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but IS PASSED FROM DEATH UNTO LIFE.
(25)Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, WHEN THE DEAD SHALL HEAR THE VOICE OF THE SON OF GOD: AND THEY THAT HEAR SHALL LIVE.
(26)For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself.
(27)And hath given him authority to execute judgement also, because he is the Son of man.
(28)MARVEL NOT AT THIS: FOR THE HOUR IS COMING, IN THE WHICH ALL THAT ARE IN THE GRAVES SHALL HEAR HIS VOICE,
(29)AND SHALL COME FORTH; THEY THAT HAVE DONE GOOD, UNTO THE RESURRECTION OF LIFE; AND THEY THAT HAVE DONE EVIL, UNTO THE RESURRECTION OF DAMNATION.
Revelation 2:11 says: He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.
...some, who died their first death as an overcomer of sin while they lived, will be resurrected from this first death unto eternal life...and those who died their first death in sin, shall be resurrected unto eternal damnation...eternal condemnation...eternal judgement.
...Read what 2 Thessalonians 1:7-9 says:
(7)And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with His mighty angels,
(8)In flaming fire, taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:
(9)Who SHALL BE PUNISHED WITH EVERLASTING DESTRUCTION FROM THE PRESENCE OF THE LORD, and from the glory of His power.
(10)When He shall come to be glorified IN HIS SAINTS, and to be admired IN ALL THEM THAT BELIEVE (because our testimony among you was believed) IN THAT DAY.<<(which is the Day of The LORD).
Bottom Line:
If you die in sin...when you are resurrected for judgement at the Great White Throne of Judgement...you are resurrected unto eternal damnation....eternal condemnation...eternal judgement.
If you die an overcomer of sin...when you are resurrected for judgement at the Great White Throne of Judgement...you are resurrected unto life eternal in the Kingdom of God.
In Love,
Verna.
I couldn't have said it better, Verna, though God knows I try!
For how does it profit a man to gain the whole world yet lose his soul?" Matthew 16:26
Again, the OP claims this verse proves Eternal Torment all by itself, yet it does not contain a reference to time or any reference to eternal consequenses in any translation. The OP is concluding the scripture says something it does not say.
The op and supporters refuse to deal with this problem since it feels better to ignore it, at least they admit it.
I couldn't have said it better, Verna, though God knows I try!
God knows your heart thrillobyte..The Truth is within you. I stand with you, believing that you will be one who dies an overcomer!......live it out in your life...we are not promised a tomorrow...so be sure. The LORD said, "If you love Me , keep my commandments." If you don't already, start obeying His commandments...all ten of them, including the Sabbath.
God knows your heart thrillobyte..The Truth is within you. I stand with you, believing that you will be one who dies an overcomer!......live it out in your life...we are not promised a tomorrow...so be sure. The LORD said, "If you love Me , keep my commandments." If you don't already, start obeying His commandments...all ten of them, including the Sabbath.
Again, the OP claims this verse proves Eternal Torment all by itself, yet it does not contain a reference to time or any reference to eternal consequenses in any translation. The OP is concluding the scripture says something it does not say.
The op and supporters refuse to deal with this problem since it feels better to ignore it, at least they admit it.
Phaze, we're not looking to pick Jesus' words apart with conjugations of Jesus' verbs, use of dangling prepositions, mistakes in usage of subject/predicate nominatives, etc. We're looking at what Jesus was implying with this simple phrase, "lose your soul". Now if you want to go on with
Quote:
it does not contain a reference to time or any reference to eternal consequenses in any translation.
then it becomes a tedious exercise in he said/she said. "Jesus made no reference to eternal punishment....well, he didn't not make any reference to it either". As Verna said, back and forth, back and forth. And to what purpose, phaze, except to get a few laugh enjoying the sparring with one another? Look at what Jesus was trying to imply without saying, "Well, He omitted this so it must not be true" stuff. Jesus said simply, "live for the world, lose your soul." Lose means lose. When you say, " I lost my wallet, it means just that: it's gone. Who knows what the external circumstances will bring. Maybe in a one in a million chance, some good soul will find it and return it to you, but I advise you not to bet the farm on that outcome.
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There is a first death, and there is a second death...
