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Old 09-03-2009, 10:52 AM
 
10,198 posts, read 10,582,449 times
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These are Jesus' own words:

Quote:
"For how does it profit a man to gain the whole world yet lose his soul?" Matthew 16:26
Plain and stark as day. No aions or anions or forevers or eternals or eternities or any references to length for UR'ers to wiggle around with arguments of, "Well the original texts use "eon" and "era" which denotes a limited duration of time."

Nope. Jesus gives us a simple truth: live for the world and work to gain it, and you lose your soul. No ifs ands or buts. Did Jesus anywhere imply in that short sentence that if you gain the world you lose your soul for only an eon or two? When I advice someone not to carry their keys around in their hands because they might lose them, is my warning interpreted as only losing them temporarily because some good soul might find them and return them, or do I mean they might lose them permanently? I think it's pretty clear Jesus was saying you lose your soul forever, and that NOT anion!
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Old 09-03-2009, 12:22 PM
 
5,925 posts, read 5,692,673 times
Reputation: 639
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post
These are Jesus' own words:



Plain and stark as day. No aions or anions or forevers or eternals or eternities or any references to length for UR'ers to wiggle around with arguments of, "Well the original texts use "eon" and "era" which denotes a limited duration of time."

Nope. Jesus gives us a simple truth: live for the world and work to gain it, and you lose your soul. No ifs ands or buts. Did Jesus anywhere imply in that short sentence that if you gain the world you lose your soul for only an eon or two? When I advice someone not to carry their keys around in their hands because they might lose them, is my warning interpreted as only losing them temporarily because some good soul might find them and return them, or do I mean they might lose them permanently? I think it's pretty clear Jesus was saying you lose your soul forever, and that NOT anion!


Nope, you bias the scripture with the implication that losing it is final and that it cannot be regained under any circumstances.


There is nothing in that verse that implies the finality of the proposition that YOU propose it means, you will have to interject that it means that even though it does not say it.
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Old 09-03-2009, 01:01 PM
 
10,198 posts, read 10,582,449 times
Reputation: 3030
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phazelwood View Post
Nope, you bias the scripture with the implication that losing it is final and that it cannot be regained under any circumstances.


There is nothing in that verse that implies the finality of the proposition that YOU propose it means, you will have to interject that it means that even though it does not say it.
Anybody care to take a stab at this? I am beyond words as usual, when phaze chimes in. No offense intended, phaze.
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Old 09-03-2009, 01:15 PM
 
6,221 posts, read 6,417,140 times
Reputation: 682
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post
These are Jesus' own words:



Plain and stark as day. No aions or anions or forevers or eternals or eternities or any references to length for UR'ers to wiggle around with arguments of, "Well the original texts use "eon" and "era" which denotes a limited duration of time."

Nope. Jesus gives us a simple truth: live for the world and work to gain it, and you lose your soul. No ifs ands or buts. Did Jesus anywhere imply in that short sentence that if you gain the world you lose your soul for only an eon or two? When I advice someone not to carry their keys around in their hands because they might lose them, is my warning interpreted as only losing them temporarily because some good soul might find them and return them, or do I mean they might lose them permanently? I think it's pretty clear Jesus was saying you lose your soul forever, and that NOT anion!
Hi Thrillobyte,

I thought you were considering annihilation/universalism for a while there... it seems like you are trying to find eternal torment anywhere you can. The above verse doesn't imply anything about eternal hell.

"For how does it profit a man to gain the whole world yet lose his soul?" Matthew 16:26

Where does this say anything about eternal hell?! This is simply talking about death. Jesus is giving us the simple truth that all people will die one day, so what does it profit him if he gains the whole world... he will still die eventually.

The soul is what makes a person alive. God breathed spirit into Adam's body and he became a living soul. It was the combination of a body and breath that made him a soul. When we die, our body decays and our breath (spirit) is gone, the soul is no more... until the resurrection. Our consciousness, the person, the identity, is the soul - the combination of a body and spirit. Without either we have no consciousness.

Unfortunately mainstream Christianity has so corrupted the truth that people believe the following:

death = judgment = condemnation = hell.

Therefore anything remotely sounding like death, or judgment, or condemnation, is automatically assumed to be proof of eternal hell. Get your head out of corrupt teachings and study what the word really says.

Peace...
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Old 09-03-2009, 01:17 PM
 
4,749 posts, read 6,178,169 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phazelwood View Post
Nope, you bias the scripture with the implication that losing it is final and that it cannot be regained under any circumstances.


There is nothing in that verse that implies the finality of the proposition that YOU propose it means, you will have to interject that it means that even though it does not say it.
Could you supply us with a verse that says it can be regained after it is lost?
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Old 09-03-2009, 01:36 PM
 
Location: Florida
5,261 posts, read 6,246,564 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post
Anybody care to take a stab at this? I am beyond words as usual, when phaze chimes in. No offense intended, phaze.
Uhhhh, no thanks, I pass...been there, done that...done!
You will learn, as I have, to not waste your time and your energy with those who think this way. You'll go round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round.....in never-ending circles.....only to end nowhere beyond where you initially began...pointless...literally.

I've learned a wonderful principle, (and it took me much too long to learn). You'll learn it as well, which is: Until God is ready to open their eyes...it's not going to happen. So, reply with the Truth of God's Word , and let it stand on it's own...because it will.

I've also learned to just continue on as if I didn't even see these type of replies...you'll feel better for it...I do. It doesn't matter how hard you try...they will not get it until God says they will.

They don't "see"...they haven't been enlightened...someday, hopefully, they'll understand the truth...if and when that occurs, will be determined by God alone...because faith comes from above.

Keep them in your prayers...I do.

In Love,
Verna.

Oh, and I need to add this: I do not necessarily belive in eternal torment either...but I do believe that when God's Word says eternal destruction...I take that to mean...eternal destruction...DEATH...DEAD...DONE...PERIOD.
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Old 09-03-2009, 01:46 PM
 
5,925 posts, read 5,692,673 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by verna perry View Post
i've also learned to just continue on as if i didn't even see these type of replies

lol
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Old 09-03-2009, 01:49 PM
 
10,198 posts, read 10,582,449 times
Reputation: 3030
Quote:
The above verse doesn't imply anything about eternal hell.

"For how does it profit a man to gain the whole world yet lose his soul?" Matthew 16:26

Where does this say anything about eternal hell?! This is simply talking about death. Jesus is giving us the simple truth that all people will die one day, so what does it profit him if he gains the whole world... he will still die eventually.
Can it all really be that mundane, lego? Did Jesus go to lengths to preach to us just to tell us something that even a moron knows--that if you throw your life away chasing wine women song you die eventually anyway--I just can't believe Jesus would waste His words on such trivialities. Our eternal destinies were the focus of His ministry here on earth. I seriously don't think He would stop at just the death of the soul and ignore speaking about the eternality of our spirits/souls.
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Old 09-03-2009, 01:52 PM
 
10,198 posts, read 10,582,449 times
Reputation: 3030
Quote:
Originally Posted by Verna Perry View Post
Uhhhh, no thanks, I pass...been there, done that...done!
You will learn, as I have, to not waste your time and your energy with those who think this way. You'll go round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round and round.....in never-ending circles.....only to end nowhere beyond where you initially began...pointless...literally.

I've learned a wonderful principle, (and it took me much too long to learn). You'll learn it as well, which is: Until God is ready to open their eyes...it's not going to happen. So, reply with the Truth of God's Word , and let it stand on it's own...because it will.

I've also learned to just continue on as if I didn't even see these type of replies...you'll feel better for it...I do. It doesn't matter how hard you try...they will not get it until God says they will.

They don't "see"...they haven't been enlightened...someday, hopefully, they'll understand the truth...if and when that occurs, will be determined by God alone...because faith comes from above.

Keep them in your prayers...I do.

In Love,
Verna.

Oh, and I need to add this: I do not necessarily belive in eternal torment either...but I do believe that when God's Word says eternal destruction...I take that to mean...eternal destruction...DEATH...DEAD...DONE...PERIOD.
You're probably right, Verna. It's just that I feel for these poor deluded souls. I want to shake them out of the error of their beliefs.
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Old 09-03-2009, 01:57 PM
 
5,925 posts, read 5,692,673 times
Reputation: 639
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrillobyte View Post
You're probably right, Verna. It's just that I feel for these poor deluded souls. I want to shake them out of the error of their beliefs.

AWWW, how condescendingly loving.
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