Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
What if i was the worst sinner that walked the face of the earth(actually i am) and God said to me i accept you as you , where does rejecting and receiving come into it ?
You see it's in being accepted as we are that bridges the gap between God and man, that causes us to yield .
He demonstrated that He accepted us as we are .
6You see, at just the right time, when we were still powerless, Christ diedfor the ungodly. 7Very rarely will anyone die for a righteous man, though for a good man someone might possibly dare to die. 8But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Romans 5 verse 6-8
If you have any doubt about God accepting us as we in the moment(exactly where we are and how we are) read the 4 gospels.
Do we turn the sick away because they are sick ?
The I AM is the Great Physician Mark 2 : 17
Have you ever known personally someone to turn down a free gift ?
I haven't
This is why He is called the Savior of all men it's a done deal . He's the Savior of all men , not just a third, or 2/3rds but all men.1 Tim 4:10
Only when i learnt that i accepted me as i am did my life change as a believer, before that i had no confidence, so i ended up relying in my own confidence which inturn brings frustration and self condemnation.You cannot love unless you know you are loved and when you understand you are loved as you are, it as a profound effect on you without having to do anything.
The good news is so liberating it gives us the boldness and confidence to approach God on the basis of what He as done alone.
How could you not be concerned with the intentions of the wicked?? Even Jesus said he didn't come to for the saints, but for the wicked!! Do you not believe in the Trinity??? If Jesus, God, and the Holy Spirit are one, then doesn't that mean Jesus is with us in his "GIFT", and continues to save sinners??? Your door salesman analogy would'nt hold water because, I don't think good news is only good if it doesn't require anything of me!!! But rather it is only good news if, I love the gift giver enough to return the favor without a worry of the cost!!! Funny thing about the GOOD news,the definition of the word good in websters dictionary is:
1. having proper qualities
2. beneficial
3. of moral excellence
Of moral EXCELLENCE!! Not, partially moral. Not, try for moral excellence. But, OF MORAL EXCELLENCE. It also says having proper qualities. That quality is the Holy Spirit that he gives us to reach the moral excellence part. And without a doubt, knowing the truth, is definately beneficial!!!
GOD BLESS!!!
ALMOST2L8
I love how you responded. Now, we are communicating. I will certainly study this and get back with you for more if that would be okay. I am honestly asking because I wasn't trying to force my beliefs even though someone said I was and for that I am sorry.
I used to play marbles when I was a kid. I still have a collection of them. Never thought of myself as a marble. But I`ve been called worse....on this forum!
Pray ye be given spiritual understanding so that you may see the example of a marble is just a metaphor, a picture of a spiritual truth.
What if i was the worst sinner that walked the face of the earth(actually i am) and God said to me i accept you as you , where does rejecting and receiving come into it ?
You see it's in being accepted as we are that bridges the gap between God and man, that causes us to yield .
He demonstrated that He accepted us as we are .
6You see, at just the right time, when we were still powerless, Christ diedfor the ungodly. 7Very rarely will anyone die for a righteous man, though for a good man someone might possibly dare to die. 8But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Romans 5 verse 6-8
If you have any doubt about God accepting us as we in the moment(exactly where we are and how we are) read the 4 gospels.
Do we turn the sick away because they are sick ?
The I AM is the Great Physician Mark 2 : 17
Have you ever known personally someone to turn down a free gift ?
I haven't
This is why He is called the Savior of all men it's a done deal . He's the Savior of all men , not just a third, or 2/3rds but all men.1 Tim 4:10
Only when i learnt that i accepted me as i am did my life change as a believer, before that i had no confidence, so i ended up relying in my own confidence which inturn brings frustration and self condemnation.You cannot love unless you know you are loved and when you understand you are loved as you are, it as a profound effect on you without having to do anything.
The good news is so liberating it gives us the boldness and confidence to approach God on the basis of what He as done alone.
************************
BOLD PRINT IS THE QUESTION OR STATEMENTS THAT ALMOST2L8 WROTE How could you not be concerned with the intentions of the wicked?? Even Jesus said he didn't come to for the saints, but for the wicked!!
Since there are different meanings for the word wicked in translation, I was referring to Poneros (Greek), which in singular form means, "devil." I cannot concern myself with the intentions of the prince and principalities of this world. Although, I do concern myself for the wickedness in people in which the flesh demonstrates. Sorry for not making myself clear. For I do not have any authority over the prince and principalities so why would I be concerned with their intentions? Prophetically speaking in the Bible, it has been described many times as to what the intentions of the wicked are. What I can control is my walk and re-checking myself to make sure I am being a light to the world and not causing my brothers and sisters to stumble.
Do you not believe in the Trinity???
Yes, I do believe in the Trinity.
If Jesus, God, and the Holy Spirit are one, then doesn't that mean Jesus is with us in his "GIFT",
YES and continues to save sinners???
Yes, if you’re referring to continue saving in the Greek word Soteria/Salvation/Born Again
If you are referring to eternal life then no, since I believe all are saved for sozo/eternal life from what Jesus did on the cross. He cannot continue to save what He has already done. (Based on my beliefs)
Your door salesman analogy wouldn’t hold water because, I don't think good news is only good if it doesn't require anything of me!!!
My door salesmen analogy does hold water and is being demonstrated and proven today. Why do you think the local church is being divided? Why do you think most do not go to church in the first place but yet still believe? Why do you think our “Christian beliefs” turns people off even to the one that does believe?
By “Christian beliefs,” we are expecting the sinner/non-believer to receive Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior; from the first time they hear the Gospel. If that’s the case, what happens if they die (physically) before hearing?
We’re supposed to come by their house to share the Gospel on Monday but yet they die on Sunday… or we’re supposed to come by on Monday to share the Gospel and we die on Sunday… or we’re supposed to come by on Monday to share the Gospel and we decide to go to a movies instead and then they die that night… What if the one that we’re sharing the Gospel with whose ground is not made fertile… or whose ground has stones in it… or whose ground has thorns…
BUT... what happens when the sower sows the word on fertile ground? Mark 4:14-20
What or should I say, who makes this ground fertile?
If we’re thinking that the Holy Spirit forces His way in, we need to think again. If we’re thinking God wouldn’t allow one to die before they heard the Gospel, we need to think again… The “Christian beliefs” has put itself BEFORE Jesus by saying the only way to escape final torment is through us the believer, by which solely depends on our obedience, faith and knowledge and of course us having the Holy Spirit. The Sower must have all. After all, without the seed to put in the ground that only the Holy Spirit can make fertile then what will be produced? Nothing… Do we really think God is waiting on us to save the “lost” or what we call “lost?” Question: Who are the “lost” lost from? God knows where they are.
I will agree when you say, "without a doubt, knowing the truth is definitely beneficial." I also would agree to Webster’s Dictionary in the context of the world.
In my thoughts and for what I understand and believe, Jesus is the sacrifice to the world given for the release (remission) of sin to God for all mankind. I believe God accepted the sacrifice and in doing so the fruit was sent to earth, which was His Spirit. In Romans 2:4 He (Holy Spirit) leadeth us to repentance (remember Mark 4:14-20).
Thank you, I truthfully found your thoughts insightful. Be Blessed, casey hollowell
I love how you responded. Now, we are communicating. I will certainly study this and get back with you for more if that would be okay. I am honestly asking because I wasn't trying to force my beliefs even though someone said I was and for that I am sorry.
Be Blessed
No offense taken!!! I'm always happy to share what I believe. Though it may not be someone elses piece of pie.
So "key word" until huh??? So for a mass murderer, with say...... 30 child deaths on his hands, would be until when??? You dont think that God would be just in sending a mass child murderer to his death sentence!!! I do!!! Believe foolishly then that even he will get the joys of heaven.......well eventually!
GOD BLESS!!!!
ALMOST2L8
What about a 12 yr old who died without believing? Do you believe that it would be just to send a child of 12 to eternal torture. A child that let`s say according to the church came to the age of accountability at the age of 8 or so. So that child gets eternity in torment and suffering because for the 4 years or so of their life on earth(being accountable) they didn`t believe or say a sinners prayer? Think how long eternity is. We cannot put our mind around it.
You see, it is easy to want to put the hiltlers and child molesters of the world in eternal torture but quite another to put your friendly neighbor or 11 or 12 yr old in there.
You make the mistake that most fundamentilist make. You are putting your own fallable idea of justice on God. You think you know what is just and what isn`t for God`s creation. The created being is trying to play God.
You are no better than a murderer,neither am I. You are a liar,so am I .
The difference is,you deny it. You think you are better than your neighbor. You think you are deserving of the joys of heaven and hitler or the mass murder is not. I `ve got a news flash for you. You are not deserving of the joys of heaven. You are not deserving of anything. If you get the joys of heaven it is becasue God and God alone had mercy on you. If that mass murdererer gets the joys of heaven it is because God and God alone had mercy on him.
You think you are better than a liar or a murderer and by society`s standards you are. But God`s standards and society`s standards are extremely different. That`s basically what those verses you quoted really are saying. You think you are good and you think you are more deserving than others but that is based on your carnal idea of justice. That is not God`s justice. But you want to impune your fallable idea of justice on God.
That is at the core of the eternal torture belief..pride. We think we are better. We think we are more deserving. It`s always someone else that is going to get their just desserts, but not me.... I get to go to heaven because I am good. The idea being,I`m better or smarter than you. I get what I deserve and you get what you deserve. The reality is...you are not good! So let me ask you. Do you deserve heaven?
What about a 12 yr old who died without believing? Do you believe that it would be just to send a child of 12 to eternal torture. A child that let`s say according to the church came to the age of accountability at the age of 8 or so. So that child gets eternity in torment and suffering because for the 4 years or so of their life on earth(being accountable) they didn`t believe or say a sinners prayer? Think how long eternity is. We cannot put our mind around it.
You see, it is easy to want to put the hiltlers and child molesters of the world in eternal torture but quite another to put your friendly neighbor or 11 or 12 yr old in there.
You make the mistake that most fundamentilist make. You are putting your own fallable idea of justice on God. You think you know what is just and what isn`t for God`s creation. The created being is trying to play God.
You are no better than a murderer,neither am I. You are a liar,so am I .
The difference is,you deny it. You think you are better than your neighbor. You think you are deserving of the joys of heaven and hitler or the mass murder is not. I `ve got a news flash for you. You are not deserving of the joys of heaven. You are not deserving of anything. If you get the joys of heaven it is becasue God and God alone had mercy on you. If that mass murdererer gets the joys of heaven it is because God and God alone had mercy on him.
You think you are better than a liar or a murderer and by society`s standards you are. But God`s standards and society`s standards are extremely different. That`s basically what those verses you quoted really are saying. You think you are good and you think you are more deserving than others but that is based on your carnal idea of justice. That is not God`s justice. But you want to impune your fallable idea of justice on God.
That is at the core of the eternal torture belief..pride. We think we are better. We think we are more deserving. It`s always someone else that is going to get their just desserts, but not me.... I get to go to heaven because I am good. The idea being,I`m better or smarter than you. I get what I deserve and you get what you deserve. The reality is...you are not good! So let me ask you. Do you deserve heaven?
Just to be clear, I do NOT believe that anyone burns in hell for eternity!!!
"Do you believe that it would be just to send a child of 12 to eternal torture??"
No, I do not think it would be right to send anyone to eternal torture!!! My daughter passed away 3 years ago and she was 28 days old. Do I believe that she is innocent?? yes, as do I a 12 year old child!!!
"You see, it is easy to want to put the hiltlers and child molesters of the world in eternal torture but quite another to put your friendly neighbor or 11 or 12 yr old in there. You make the mistake that most fundamentilist make. You are putting your own fallable idea of justice on God. You think you know what is just and what isn`t for God`s creation. The created being is trying to play God."
I don't WANT to put anyone in hell. Wether it be my daughter, or Hitler. I am not the judge. You assume that I believe in ET. Wrong!! You also assume that I think I know what is just for Gods creation. Wrong again!! Only God does. I do not claim to know what God has in store for me or anyone else. I only have my beliefs. Maybe right, maybe wrong, but they are only beliefs. Like your own.
"You are no better than a murderer,neither am I. You are a liar,so am I . The difference is,you deny it. You think you are better than your neighbor. You think you are deserving of the joys of heaven and hitler or the mass murder is not."
I never said I was better than anyone!!! I'll say it again, only God knows who is or is'nt worthy of the joys of heaven. Key word today: Believe
I believe that evil exists in this world. I believe everyone will face the judge. I believe that some can be so overcome with evil to a point of no return. I do believe that God will not let some into heaven. Who?? I couldn't tell you. That is up to Him!!!
Believe: take as true, faith, suppose; guess
"I `ve got a news flash for you. You are not deserving of the joys of heaven. You are not deserving of anything. If you get the joys of heaven it is becasue God and God alone had mercy on you. If that mass murdererer gets the joys of heaven it is because God and God alone had mercy on him."
Wait a minute, now all of the sudden your judging me!!!! Are you playing God??? How do you know that I'm not deserving?? I believe that murderers (like all) are given multiple opportunities to be saved through Jesus Christ, and depart from their evil ways.
"You think you are better than a liar or a murderer and by society`s standards you are. But God`s standards and society`s standards are extremely different. That`s basically what those verses you quoted really are saying. You think you are good and you think you are more deserving than others but that is based on your carnal idea of justice. That is not God`s justice. But you want to impune your fallable idea of justice on God."
Let's just assume (There's that word again) that I am using society's standards. Even by society standards, you are not considered a responsible adult until you are 18!! You seem to think that God's standards says it's more like 8 or 12. Maybe our standards are a little more caring than Gods??? I think not!! I do not know God's standards, but I know that there are standards, because He says there is!!! Again, I have never in my life (except once 15 years ago in gym class) claimed or pretended to be better or more deserving than anyone.
"That is at the core of the eternal torture belief..pride. We think we are better. We think we are more deserving. It`s always someone else that is going to get their just desserts, but not me.... I get to go to heaven because I am good. The idea being,I`m better or smarter than you. I get what I deserve and you get what you deserve. The reality is...you are not good! So let me ask you. Do you deserve heaven?"
Still judging?? I don't believe in eternal torture!!! I never said I was going to heaven!! I have beliefs that if one was to turn his life completely over to Jesus Christ he will give his gift of the Holy Spirit to guide him in a journey to walk as He did. A sinless life. Not as if he never sinned, but rather to be baptized by the Holy Spirit being born-again so that he is saved from sin and sinning forever!!! Do I deserve heaven??? No, I do not. Never said that I did. But I definately am on my way, in my walk in Christ, to a sinless life. Do I believe I can end up living a sinless life?? Sure I do. Will I actually be able to do it??? Only God knows for sure. But as long as I walk this earth, I will work earnestly to walk that sinless life!!!
What if i was the worst sinner that walked the face of the earth(actually i am) and God said to me i accept you as you , where does rejecting and receiving come into it ?
You see it's in being accepted as we are that bridges the gap between God and man, that causes us to yield .
He demonstrated that He accepted us as we are .
6You see, at just the right time, when we were still powerless, Christ diedfor the ungodly. 7Very rarely will anyone die for a righteous man, though for a good man someone might possibly dare to die. 8But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Romans 5 verse 6-8
If you have any doubt about God accepting us as we in the moment(exactly where we are and how we are) read the 4 gospels.
Do we turn the sick away because they are sick ?
The I AM is the Great Physician Mark 2 : 17
Have you ever known personally someone to turn down a free gift ?
I haven't
This is why He is called the Savior of all men it's a done deal . He's the Savior of all men , not just a third, or 2/3rds but all men.1 Tim 4:10
Only when i learnt that i accepted me as i am did my life change as a believer, before that i had no confidence, so i ended up relying in my own confidence which inturn brings frustration and self condemnation.You cannot love unless you know you are loved and when you understand you are loved as you are, it as a profound effect on you without having to do anything.
The good news is so liberating it gives us the boldness and confidence to approach God on the basis of what He as done alone.
No, I would not send away the sick, but if God gave me the power to heal the sick, then I shall heal!!! No, I have not known anyone to turn down a free gift, but you can't tell me that all free gifts are kept or even utilized. And if someone did not want the free gift, they would nod, smile, and accept it for now because their too kind to people face to face to hurt their feelings. With God it is a different story, people don't see him face to face, some go as far as to throw the gift in the trash, and worship satan!!
Again, I believe that some people have found what they think is a receipt for God's gift, and they would rather return the gift for one that THEY want!!! Instead of accepting God's gift as he has given it!! As far as your life changing as a believer. I am happy for you!!! Truly. I actually wish that everyone, wether UR, ET, Annihilationist, Athiest etc. etc..... would just fall into love with God as well as fellow man (or woman). Well for athiests, just fellow man because they couldn't possibly love God!!
GOD BLESS, pcamps!!!
ALMOST2L8
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Now, we are communicating. I will certainly study this and get back with you for more if that would be okay. I am honestly asking because I wasn't trying to force my beliefs even though someone said I was and for that I am sorry.
How do you know that I'm not deserving?? I believe that murderers (like all) are given multiple opportunities to be saved through Jesus Christ, and depart from their evil ways. 
