We are saved BY Jesus and not BECAUSE of Jesus (Kingdom, verse)

[legoman]

pcamps, trettep, aren't you guys arguing the same thing?!?

We are not saved by works, we are saved by faith (God's). Faith starts it off. But we must and will do works once God has started the salvation process... any good works we do were planned by God for us to do - they are God's works not ours. So none can boast.

[legoman]

Originally Posted by Huckleberry3911948

he can throw you a life preserver but you gota grab it.

This would be "works salvation". Its hard to grab the life presever when you are unconscious at the bottom of the pool.

[trettep]

Originally Posted by legoman

pcamps, trettep, aren't you guys arguing the same thing?!?

We are not saved by works, we are saved by faith (God's). Faith starts it off. But we must and will do works once God has started the salvation process... any good works we do were planned by God for us to do - they are God's works not ours. So none can boast.

No we are not arguing the same thing. I say that Works are required for salvation and Pcamps took argument to that. But I ask you the question legoman:

Can dead Faith (faith witout works) access Grace?

Paul

[pcamps]

Originally Posted by trettep

Let me demonstrate to all the REAL nature in Pcamps. For everyone reading - go back and find where I made this claim that pcamps is stating. This is what pcamps does. He introduces the strawman so he can argue from that point on.

trettep this is exactly what you do . My point is; our salvation is by faith in His grace, our new life is about abiding(remaining,fellowshiping,being intimate)in His love, this is only possible way fruit can be born in the life of the believer.This is exactly what James is saying, by faith without works is dead.

You arguing in support of yourself. You are trying to be wise in thinking you have all knowledge of the scripture , but have no idea the believers life is all about the reality of knowing Christ in us.

[trettep]

Originally Posted by Phazelwood

Let me see if I can explain this based on what I think is a common misperception concerning "works".

One of the things I encountered while still in religion was people who would look at someone and judge them as saved or unsaved based upon what they see them doing, or not doing.

This is a very prevalent point of view in religion, even if not everyone acts that way.

So correct me if I am wrong in what your saying, I do not believe you are saying that man must come up with a list of things to do, but that God working in us and through us will manifest his will.

Just as you pointed out about the thief on the cross, works, of God, manifested in his ability to recognize Christ. Without that "work" of God, that would not have happened.

Not sure exactly what your asking. What I'm saying is that you cannot continue in Grace if you don't do Good Works. Theirfore, GOOD Works are a REQUIREMENT to remain in Grace. If you don't remain in Grace you cannot be saved. If you don't do works then you can't be saved because you no longer have access to Grace.

This is why I say Dead Faith cannot access Grace.

Remember FAITH is the ACCESS to Grace (this is not my words - they are Paul's - more importantly God's Word):

Rom 5:2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

[trettep]

Originally Posted by pcamps

trettep this is exactly what you do . My point is; our salvation is by faith in His grace, our new life is about abiding(remaining,fellowshiping,being intimate)in His love, this is only possible way fruit can be born in the life of the believer.This is exactly what James is saying, by faith without works is dead.

You arguing in support of yourself. You are trying to be wise in thinking you have all knowledge of the scripture , but have no idea the believers life is all about the reality of knowing Christ in us.

Come down from your mountain pcamps.

[pcamps]

Originally Posted by trettep

Come down from your mountain pcamps.

Since when does a man who thinks he can nothing of is ownself need to come down a mountain , He as one place of abode and that is in Him.

[Phazelwood]

Originally Posted by trettep

Not sure exactly what your asking. What I'm saying is that you cannot continue in Grace if you don't do Good Works. Theirfore, GOOD Works are a REQUIREMENT to remain in Grace. If you don't remain in Grace you cannot be saved. If you don't do works then you can't be saved because you no longer have access to Grace.

This is why I say Dead Faith cannot access Grace.

Remember FAITH is the ACCESS to Grace (this is not my words - they are Paul's - more importantly God's Word):

Rom 5:2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

Let me ask a question just to clarify where your belief is before I answer your post here, this isn't a trick question. From what I gather you believe in the salvation of all through Christ, am I correct or mistaken?

[trettep]

Originally Posted by Phazelwood

Let me ask a question just to clarify where your belief is before I answer your post here, this isn't a trick question. From what I gather you believe in the salvation of all through Christ, am I correct or mistaken?

Correct, All shall be saved through Christ.

[Phazelwood]

Originally Posted by trettep

Not sure exactly what your asking. What I'm saying is that you cannot continue in Grace if you don't do Good Works. Theirfore, GOOD Works are a REQUIREMENT to remain in Grace. If you don't remain in Grace you cannot be saved. If you don't do works then you can't be saved because you no longer have access to Grace.

This is why I say Dead Faith cannot access Grace.

Remember FAITH is the ACCESS to Grace (this is not my words - they are Paul's - more importantly God's Word):

Rom 5:2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.

Given your answer that you believe that all will be saved through Christ, what I think is being misunderstood is if we have to DO things then by what means do we do good works and what might those works be?