U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 11-12-2016, 07:36 PM
 
21,523 posts, read 16,536,458 times
Reputation: 8503

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aristotles child View Post
RESPONSE:

A person’s “seed” was all of his or her offspring, not just one. It is a collective noun such as “the team”
Therefore in Gen 3-15 the seed means all the offspring of Eve, that would be all mankind, especially the Hebrew race. Not only one person.

RESPONSE: Your error as has been pointed out previously

“I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and hers; They will strike at your head, while you strike at their heel. (NABRE)
Footnote: [3:15] They will strike…at their heel: the antecedent for “they” and “their” is the collective noun “offspring,” i.e., all the descendants of the woman.”

Hebrew translation Genesis 3: 15
15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; they shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise their heel.'


See: https://adventistbiblicalresearch.or...ts/genesis-315

wě’b ’āšt bněkā bn hāišš bn zar‘ăkā bn zar‘āh h’ yěšpěkā rō’š wě’att těšpenn ‘āqēb

And enmity shall I set between you and the woman, and between your seed and her seed; he, he (?) will bruise you on the head, and you, you will bruise him (?) on the heel.

It has been customary for some time now to state that the woman’s seed in Genesis 3:15 refers to her posterity in general; and that the ‘crushing’ or ‘bruising’ of the snake’s head is represented as being done through humanity in general.



The Messiah was of the seed of David and Solomon. In fact: “The Messiah must be descended on his father's side from King David (see Genesis 49:10, Isaiah 11:1, Jeremiah 23:5, 33:17; Ezekiel 34:23-24)

Genesis 35:11New American Bible (Revised Edition) (NABRE)

11 Then God said to him: I am God Almighty; be fruitful and multiply. A nation, indeed an assembly of nations, will stem from you, and kings will issue from your loins.


NB Actual seed (Gr. sperma) issues from the male loins, not the female loins. However, when the general term “seed” is used, it collectively means all of a person’s offspring.
No, YOUR error has been pointed out previously. By the apostle Paul. Do you understand the meaning of the word 'ultimately.' The promise that God made to the woman, and later made to Abraham was to be ultimately fulfilled by Jesus who is the descendent of David through His mother Mary.

Gal. 3:16 Now the promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. He does not say, "And to seeds," as referring to many, but rather to one, "And to your seed," that is, Christ.

It was all explained in post #98.

Now, do you think I'm going to believe you over against the apostle Paul? You lose.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 11-12-2016, 08:38 PM
 
682 posts, read 210,201 times
Reputation: 54
Default Paul alters scripture to suit his purpose.

Quote:
As Paul stated in Gal. 3:16, Jesus is the seed or descendent of Abraham.

Gal. 3:16 Now the promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. He does not say, "And to seeds," as referring to many, but rather to one, "And to your seed," that is, Christ.
RESPONSE:
Yes, Paul misquotes scripture here to suit his purpose. Quite obviously Paul twists the scripture.. Offspring or seed or descendants is a collective term. Paul tries to replace it with a singular term to create a prophecy of Jesus.

New American Bible Footnote [3:16] Descendant: literally, and to his seed. The Hebrew, as in Gn 12:7; 15:18; 22:1718, is a collective singular, traditionally rendered as a plural, descendants, but taken by Paul in its literal number to refer to Christ as descendant of Abraham. :

See Genesis 12:7
New American Bible (Revised Edition) (NABRE)
7 The LORD appeared to Abram and said: To your descendants I will give this land. So Abram built an altar there to the LORD who had appeared to him.

See Genesis 22:17-18
New American Bible (Revised Edition) (NABRE)
I will bless you and make your descendants as countless as the stars of the sky and the sands of the seashore; your descendants will take possession of the gates of their enemies, 18and in your descendants all the nations of the earth will find blessing, because you obeyed my command.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-12-2016, 08:39 PM
 
21,523 posts, read 16,536,458 times
Reputation: 8503
[quote=Aristotles child;46173929]
Quote:
As Paul stated in Gal. 3:16, Jesus is the seed or descendent of Abraham.

Gal. 3:16 Now the promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. He does not say, "And to seeds," as referring to many, but rather to one, "And to your seed," that is, Christ.

New American Bible Revised. Now the promises were made to Abraham and to his descendant.* It does not say, And to descendants, as referring to many, but as referring to one, And to your descendant, who is Christ.

New Revised Standard Version, Now the promises were made to Abraham and to his offspring;[f]it does not say, And to offsprings,[g] as of many; but it says, And to your offspring,[h] that is, to one person, who is Christ.

[3:16] Descendant: literally, and to his seed. The Hebrew, as in Gn 12:7; 15:18; 22:1718, is a collective singular, traditionally rendered as a plural, descendants, but taken by Paul in its literal number to refer to Christ as descendant of Abraham.
Quite obviously Paul twists the scripture here. Offspring or seed or descendants is a collective term. Paul tries to replace it with a singular term to create a prophecy of Jesus.
English Revised Version Genesis 12:7 Genesis 22:17-18New American Bible (Revised Edition) (NABRE)
17 I will bless you and make your descendants as countless as the stars of the sky and the sands of the seashore; your descendants will take possession of the gates of their enemies, 18 and in your descendants all the nations of the earth will find blessing, because you obeyed my command.

Genesis 22:17-18New American Bible (Revised Edition) (NABRE)
17 I will bless you and make your descendants as countless as the stars of the sky and the sands of the seashore; your descendants will take possession of the gates of their enemies, 18 and in your descendants all the nations of the earth will find blessing, because you obeyed my command.
No, Paul has not twisted the Scriptures. Paul recognized that Jesus was the fulfillment of the promise made to Abraham. It's that simple. The promise came down to Jesus who was the ultimate fulfillment of that promise. Jesus came into the world through a Jewish line of descent. The blessing comes through Jesus. Israel was blessed by being the people though whom Jesus came into the world.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-12-2016, 08:46 PM
 
682 posts, read 210,201 times
Reputation: 54
Default Paul alters scripture to suit his purpose.

[quote=Mike555;46174096]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aristotles child View Post

No, Paul has not twisted the Scriptures. Paul recognized that Jesus was the fulfillment of the promise made to Abraham. It's that simple. The promise came down to Jesus who was the ultimate fulfillment of that promise. Jesus came into the world through a Jewish line of descent. The blessing comes through Jesus. Israel was blessed by being the people though whom Jesus came into the world.
RESPONSE: It should be obvious that Paul rewrote the original scripture to support his views.

"Descendants", "seed" etc are collective terms. So Paul ops for a singular so he can change the meaning to Jesus alone.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-12-2016, 09:05 PM
 
21,523 posts, read 16,536,458 times
Reputation: 8503
[quote=Aristotles child;46174152]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post

RESPONSE: It should be obvious that Paul rewrote the original scripture to support his views.

"Descendants", "seed" etc are collective terms. So Paul ops for a singular so he can change the meaning to Jesus alone.
It should be obvious that Paul understood the Old Testament Scriptures which pointed to Jesus. Abraham had many descendants, but Jesus, the Messiah, is the ultimate fulfillment of the promise.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-12-2016, 10:24 PM
 
Location: USA - Texas
134 posts, read 39,760 times
Reputation: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aristotles child View Post
Will The Real Father Of Jesus Come Forward. The Holy Ghost Or God The Father?

Question: On the other hand what about Joseph? If Joseph was Jesus' biological father, then Jesus would have been of the seed of David and Solomon just like the Old Testament requires of the Messiah.

NB: Since in the Bible the "seed" is always male, claiming any maternal descent does not fulfill scripture.
Short version:

Christ comes from the seed of Eve not Adam. Woman not man. Adams seed was born in sin and shaped in iniquity. Read Gen 3:15 .

Last edited by Daingerfield; 11-12-2016 at 10:43 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-12-2016, 11:14 PM
 
Location: USA - Texas
134 posts, read 39,760 times
Reputation: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur View Post
So the words "the Father" are just supposed to confuse us, I guess. Why on earth would you think God the Father would be known as "God the Father" if He wasn't, in fact, the Father?
I'm not sure what your getting at. Maybe your agreeing and joking or maybe I left you confused. I am sorry if I confused you.
Jesus was conceived by the Holy Ghost. The Father is the Holy Ghost. The Holy Ghost is the Father. They are not 1st person and 3rd person. They are not different people, they are the same. No Trinity, just a Son and The Father that is the Holy Ghost. That is my understanding.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-13-2016, 08:00 AM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
21,846 posts, read 21,932,573 times
Reputation: 10594
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daingerfield View Post
I'm not sure what your getting at. Maybe your agreeing and joking or maybe I left you confused. I am sorry if I confused you.
Jesus was conceived by the Holy Ghost. The Father is the Holy Ghost. The Holy Ghost is the Father. They are not 1st person and 3rd person. They are not different people, they are the same. No Trinity, just a Son and The Father that is the Holy Ghost. That is my understanding.
Thanks for clarifying. I disagree that the Father and the Holy Ghost are one and the same, so that's why your answer didn't make sense to me. But thanks for the explanation.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-13-2016, 11:35 AM
 
21,523 posts, read 16,536,458 times
Reputation: 8503
Moderator cut: delete


The real issue has been dealt with. Jesus is the promised seed who was to come, the ultimate fulfillment of God's promise to Abraham, no matter how much you deny it. The line of descent though which Jesus came into the world is given by both Matthew and Luke. The apostle Paul recognized that the promise of the seed had its ultimate fulfillment in Jesus and so stated it in Galatians 3:16.

Gal. 3:16 Now the promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. He does not say, "And to seeds," as referring to many, but rather to one, "And to your seed," that is, Christ.

Paul knew and understood the Old Testament Scriptures, and understood what the promise of the seed referred to.

Your claim that Paul twisted the scriptures has no merit whatsoever and the claim is nothing more than your continuing efforts to discredit the Bible.


The promised seed.
https://bible.org/seriespage/7-promi...s-perfect-plan

Last edited by Miss Blue; 11-13-2016 at 09:20 PM.. Reason: orphaned quote and your response to it
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-13-2016, 12:49 PM
 
Location: Booth Texas
14,596 posts, read 4,883,095 times
Reputation: 1465
Quote:
Originally Posted by bbyrd009 View Post
wow, that was a lot of work, Hann. Ty.
the hidden part is...well, ya ty

It is a curious thing that around the Egyptian desert where Moses walked, you find the valley of whales. There was an ocean there once, and there are extinct dolphin bones that some are so large their head bone would stick out one side of the hill, and their tail the other.


National Geographic Magazine - NGM.com


People doing science on evolution seen in the Egyptian desert.


Then you have Moses leading millions of people with a moving tabernacle made with it's outer skin of a dolphin and as the bible says,'' He made darkness His hiding place, His canopy around Him, Darkness of waters, thick clouds of the skies.''


I think that skin represents dark waters, even a cloud, or a dolphin swimming in the sand as was found in the desert.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. | Please obey Forum Rules | Terms of Use and Privacy Policy

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top