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Old 09-08-2009, 10:39 AM
 
Location: South Carolina
3,586 posts, read 5,479,814 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
I hear.. you give up. It just reminds me of what you said the other day when someone wouldn't answer you.



GN
Give up, LOL, it was late and I wasn't going to stay up all night to debate with you . I do have another life besides being online, that I love. So, you can stay online all day it you like, but I prefer other things.
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Old 09-08-2009, 01:09 PM
 
208 posts, read 305,545 times
Reputation: 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
It's just a theological term, because of the Father, Son relationship they assume with regard to their plan of salvation for man. A father has authority over a son. Jesus agreed that when He came into the world, He would set aside the independant use of His deity ( doctrine of Kenosis), and would rely on the ministry of the Holy Spirit to sustain Him in this life. This was because Christ was establishing the pattern that we are to follow in relying on the indwelling Holy Spirit to sustain us. He showed us how we are to relate to God the Father. It doesn't imply in any way that they are not equal. All three members of the Trinity are co-equal and co-eternal. In their essence they are exactly the same. They are three persons who are one in essense. One God.

and would rely on the ministry of the Holy Spirit to sustain Him in this life.


so Jesus had to rely on the holy spirit to sustain him?
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Old 09-08-2009, 07:37 PM
 
21,632 posts, read 16,611,848 times
Reputation: 8590
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hotep View Post
and would rely on the ministry of the Holy Spirit to sustain Him in this life.


so Jesus had to rely on the holy spirit to sustain him?
From the standpoint of His humanity, as a man, a human being, but not from the standpoint of His deity, Jesus established a pattern for all believers to follow, in that God the Holy Spirit is the power in the Christian way of life.

Jesus was continually filled with the Holy Spirit from the moment of His physical birth (except for the last three hours on the Cross when He was being judged for our sins.) We are commanded to be filled with the Holy Spirit.

Ephesians 5:18...'but be filled with the Spirit.'
How? 1 John 1:9 ' If we acknowledge our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.'

Now, Jesus never sinned and so didn't need to utilize the principle of
1 John 1:9. But we do.

Now, as a result of 1 John 1:9, we are under the control of the indwelling Holy Spirit and able to understand and learn the Word of God and to pursue spiritual growth. Without first naming our sins privately to God the Father we can not enter into a walk with the Holy Spirit and therefore cannot execute the plan of God for our life. The principle of 1 John 1:9, is our entrance into the spiritual life. But it is only an entrance. Now, again, Jesus was constantly filled with the Spirit, and He constantly walked by means of the Spirit.
Jesus was constantly doing the will of the Father, as we should do. And walking in the spirit (for us) [Galatians 5:16] means to be current in the naming of your sins as you commit them so that you are back under the control of the Holy Spirit and in a position to (2 Peter 3:18) '.... grow in grace and in knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

Jesus was continually relying on, and living in the sphere of the indwelling and filling ministries of God the Holy Spirit as we also are commanded to.

The sustaining ministry of the Spirit was prophesied in the Old Testament.
Isa. 11:2,3; 42:1; 61:1-3.

The Holy Spirit was given without measure to the humanity of Christ.
John 3:34.

The Holy Spirit sustained Christ during His earthly ministry.
Matthew 12:18,28; Luke 4:14,15,18.

The ministry of the Holy Spirit discontinued during the time when Christ was bearing our sins on the Cross. Psalm 22:1-prophetic; Matt. 27:46-historical.

The Holy Spirit had a part in the resurrection of Christ. Rom. 8:11;
1 Peter 3:18.

The present ministry of the Holy Spirit and the filling of the Holy Spirit in the Church Age are related to the glorification of Christ. John 7:39;16:14.
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Old 09-08-2009, 07:43 PM
 
208 posts, read 305,545 times
Reputation: 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
From the standpoint of His humanity, as a man, a human being, but not from the standpoint of His deity, Jesus established a pattern for all believers to follow, in that God the Holy Spirit is the power in the Christian way of life.

Jesus was continually filled with the Holy Spirit from the moment of His physical birth (except for the last three hours on the Cross when He was being judged for our sins.) We are commanded to be filled with the Holy Spirit.

Ephesians 5:18...'but be filled with the Spirit.'
How? 1 John 1:9 ' If we acknowledge our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.'

Now, Jesus never sinned and so didn't need to utilize the principle of
1 John 1:9. But we do.

Now, as a result of 1 John 1:9, we are under the control of the indwelling Holy Spirit and able to understand and learn the Word of God and to pursue spiritual growth. Without first naming our sins privately to God the Father we can not enter into a walk with the Holy Spirit and therefore cannot execute the plan of God for our life. The principle of 1 John 1:9, is our entrance into the spiritual life. But it is only an entrance. Now, again, Jesus was constantly filled with the Spirit, and He constantly walked by means of the Spirit.
Jesus was constantly doing the will of the Father, as we should do. And walking in the spirit (for us) [Galatians 5:16] means to be current in the naming of your sins as you commit them so that you are back under the control of the Holy Spirit and in a position to (2 Peter 3:18) '.... grow in grace and in knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

Jesus was continually relying on, and living in the sphere of the indwelling and filling ministries of God the Holy Spirit as we also are commanded to.

The sustaining ministry of the Spirit was prophesied in the Old Testament.
Isa. 11:2,3; 42:1; 61:1-3.

The Holy Spirit was given without measure to the humanity of Christ.
John 3:34.

The Holy Spirit sustained Christ during His earthly ministry.
Matthew 12:18,28; Luke 4:14,15,18.

The ministry of the Holy Spirit discontinued during the time when Christ was bearing our sins on the Cross. Psalm 22:1-prophetic; Matt. 27:46-historical.

The Holy Spirit had a part in the resurrection of Christ. Rom. 8:11;
1 Peter 3:18.

The present ministry of the Holy Spirit and the filling of the Holy Spirit in the Church Age are related to the glorification of Christ. John 7:39;16:14.


hold on, i only asked one question, all this writing, just answer the question yes or no, than we can move on.

did you say Jesus needed the Holy spirit to substain him?
yes or no
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Old 09-09-2009, 11:37 AM
 
21,632 posts, read 16,611,848 times
Reputation: 8590
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hotep View Post
hold on, i only asked one question, all this writing, just answer the question yes or no, than we can move on.

did you say Jesus needed the Holy spirit to substain him?
yes or no
My answer, in it's entirety stands as is. My purpose is to provide information to any who are interested. Not to debate. What I wrote and the passages provided have thoroughly answered your question. If you have another question, ask it.

Last edited by Mike555; 09-09-2009 at 12:00 PM..
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Old 09-09-2009, 02:19 PM
 
208 posts, read 305,545 times
Reputation: 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
My answer, in it's entirety stands as is. My purpose is to provide information to any who are interested. Not to debate. What I wrote and the passages provided have thoroughly answered your question. If you have another question, ask it.


so Jesus had to rely on the holy spirit to sustain him?


sustain him from what if Jesus was all powerful, why would he need help in being sustain?
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Old 09-09-2009, 02:28 PM
 
21,632 posts, read 16,611,848 times
Reputation: 8590
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hotep View Post
so Jesus had to rely on the holy spirit to sustain him?


sustain him from what if Jesus was all powerful, why would he need help in being sustain?
If you had read what I posted and if you had comprehended what I said and what those passages were saying, you would not have asked that question. If you are truely looking for the answer to your question then go back and read with comprehension what I wrote.
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Old 09-09-2009, 08:48 PM
 
208 posts, read 305,545 times
Reputation: 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
If you had read what I posted and if you had comprehended what I said and what those passages were saying, you would not have asked that question. If you are truely looking for the answer to your question then go back and read with comprehension what I wrote.


all of these if you, if you, you think you answer the question, the fact is Jesus was not all powerful if he had the holy spirit to subtain him.


does God have the holy spirit substain him?

to each his own, but your statement will always be here for people to see. as to Jesus being sustain by the holy spirit.
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Old 09-09-2009, 09:03 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,652,077 times
Reputation: 1694
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
If you had read what I posted and if you had comprehended what I said and what those passages were saying, you would not have asked that question. If you are truely looking for the answer to your question then go back and read with comprehension what I wrote.
Still... really didn't answer the question...

Did Jesus, as God, really need the Holy Spirit to sustain him?

You posted evidence that the Holy Spirit came upon him but hotep is asking did he NEED it?

But then if you answer that yes he did, well... obviously that wouldn't help your case.. If you answered no he didn't, well ... that might help but then you'd be asked why he got it if he didn't need it..

Avoidance is the best solution. I agree.
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Old 09-09-2009, 09:49 PM
 
21,632 posts, read 16,611,848 times
Reputation: 8590
Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
Still... really didn't answer the question...

Did Jesus, as God, really need the Holy Spirit to sustain him?

You posted evidence that the Holy Spirit came upon him but hotep is asking did he NEED it?

But then if you answer that yes he did, well... obviously that wouldn't help your case.. If you answered no he didn't, well ... that might help but then you'd be asked why he got it if he didn't need it..

Avoidance is the best solution. I agree.
Read the information I posted in my original reply. The other poster didn't bother to read it because he wanted a simple yes or no. If someone is not even going to bother reading what I post, then what is the point of saying anything more? Everything that answers his question is in that post. Just read it.
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