Every knee will bow... or not?

[katjonjj]

Originally Posted by pcamps

Crisps are what you Yanks call chips and we do much better flavors .

So then what would you call a berry pie without crust with crispy stuff all over it? Is that a tart?

What is weird is that if you go to a restaurant here, and you want fish and fries.. you order fish and chips!

[yeshuasavedme]

Originally Posted by legoman

Scripture tells us every knee will bow and every tongue confess and swear allegiance.

See Isaiah 45:22-23, Phil 2:9-11, Romans 14:10-11.

I have learned some people don't think this will really be every single person who ever existed who is bowing, confessing, and swearing allegiance to the Lord. Instead, it will only be those who are alive and/or resurrected believers. Others only believe it is those not destined for "hell".

In any case, I think the above scriptures strongly support it being every single person who has existed, especially Phil 2, which speaks of every knee bowing "in heaven and on earth and under the earth". Sounds like everyone to me.

However, in another thread, HotinAZ brought up this passage in Isa 66:

Isa 66:23 From one New Moon to another and from one Sabbath to another, all mankind will come and bow down before me," says the LORD. 24 "And they will go out and look upon the dead bodies of those who rebelled against me; their worm will not die, nor will their fire be quenched, and they will be loathsome to all mankind."

Here it seems that all mankind is bowing, but they are looking at the carcasses of those who rebelled. HotinAZ used this scripture to make the case for annihilation, and also to make the point that the other 3 verses about everyone bowing and confessing, don't really mean everyone.

I don't believe this is correct - I believe it is a contradiction with Phil 2:9-11. But the question remains, what is Isa 66:23-24 talking about?

One idea is that all are bowing, and they all have spiritual bodies at this point (since it must be after the resurrection), so they are looking at their own dead bodies that rebelled.

Another possibility which I think may be more likely, is that verse 23 is only talking about those alive at the first resurrection (this would be the elect), and they are looking at the carcasses of the non-elect. The non-elect would be resurrected later.

Thoughts?

The Scripture in Isaiah 45:23 is YHWH saying that He has already sworn it, the word had already gone out of His mouth saying;

That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear [the swearing they will do is to declare that He is the LORD].
So, when did YHWH say that already? -He said it already in 1 Enoch! and why did Paul know that those who swear that He is LORD/YHWH will be swearing to Jesus Christ, as Isaiah does not state that? -because Paul read it in the same passage in 1 Enoch which YHWH is referring to through Isaiah, and in that passage in 1 Enoch, it is the "Son of Man in heaven" who is the LORD to whom all tongues will confess as they are bowed before Him!
-but it will not prevent them from descending into Sheol, states 1 Enoch, for they see Him whom they refused all their lives, and it is too late to be redeemed, then. That is when they are before Him when He is the Judge of them, sitting on the Throne!

[Chapter 63]
1 In those days shall the mighty and the kings who possess the earth implore (Him) to grant them a little respite from His angels of punishment to whom they were delivered, that they might fall 2 down and worship before the Lord of Spirits, and confess their sins before Him. And they shall bless and glorify the Lord of Spirits, and say:
' Blessed is the Lord of Spirits and the Lord of kings,
And the Lord of the mighty and the Lord of the rich,
And the Lord of glory and the Lord of wisdom,
3 And splendid in every secret thing is Thy power from generation to generation,
And Thy glory for ever and ever:
Deep are all Thy secrets and innumerable,
And Thy righteousness is beyond reckoning.
4 We have now learnt that we should glorify
And bless the Lord of kings and Him who is king over all kings.'
5 And they shall say:
' Would that we had rest to glorify and give thanks
And confess our faith before His glory !
6 And now we long for a little rest but find it not:
We follow hard upon and obtain (it) not:
And light has vanished from before us,
And darkness is our dwelling-place for ever and ever: 7 For we have not believed before Him
Nor glorified the name of the Lord of Spirits, [nor glorified our Lord]
But our hope was in the sceptre of our kingdom,
And in our glory.
8 And in the day of our suffering and tribulation He saves us not,
And we find no respite for confession
That our Lord is true in all His works, and in His judgements and His justice,
And His judgements have no respect of persons.
And we pass away from before His face on account of our works,
And all our sins are reckoned up in righteousness.'
10 Now they shall say unto themselves: ' Our souls are full of unrighteous gain, but it does not prevent us from descending from the midst thereof into the burden of Sheol.'
11 And after that their faces shall be filled with darkness
And shame before that Son of Man,
And they shall be driven from his presence,
And the sword shall abide before his face in their midst.
12 Thus spake the Lord of Spirits: ' This is the ordinance and judgement with respect to the mighty and the kings and the exalted and those who possess the earth before the Lord of Spirits.'

The dead carcases they look at are bodies of the rapha/the dead -whose bodies will not rise.
The Rapha are giants, who are evil spirits in bodies stolen from Adam flesh creation. They will not rise in those bodies, says 1 Enoch, but every Adam flesh person's body who is multiplied seed of the Adam creation spirit will rise in either of the two resurrections in their own bodies, either in the resurrection of the righteous for eternal life or the resurrection of the wicked for eternal death in the Lake of Fie -cast there in their own bodies, which will never cease to exist because Jesus atoned for all Adamkind souls, so that they would not suffer the penalty of the first death forever. Suffering the second death is up to themselves, however, in rejecting Jesus while they had the Light that lights every man that comes into the world.
To escape the second death, one must embrace the Gospel of Jesus Christ while they have their being and self will, intact, and be born into His Living Spirit, which is to be adopted out of the dead Adam spirit..

[trettep]

Originally Posted by legoman

Scripture tells us every knee will bow and every tongue confess and swear allegiance.

See Isaiah 45:22-23, Phil 2:9-11, Romans 14:10-11.

I have learned some people don't think this will really be every single person who ever existed who is bowing, confessing, and swearing allegiance to the Lord. Instead, it will only be those who are alive and/or resurrected believers. Others only believe it is those not destined for "hell".

In any case, I think the above scriptures strongly support it being every single person who has existed, especially Phil 2, which speaks of every knee bowing "in heaven and on earth and under the earth". Sounds like everyone to me.

However, in another thread, HotinAZ brought up this passage in Isa 66:

Isa 66:23 From one New Moon to another and from one Sabbath to another, all mankind will come and bow down before me," says the LORD. 24 "And they will go out and look upon the dead bodies of those who rebelled against me; their worm will not die, nor will their fire be quenched, and they will be loathsome to all mankind."

Here it seems that all mankind is bowing, but they are looking at the carcasses of those who rebelled. HotinAZ used this scripture to make the case for annihilation, and also to make the point that the other 3 verses about everyone bowing and confessing, don't really mean everyone.

I don't believe this is correct - I believe it is a contradiction with Phil 2:9-11. But the question remains, what is Isa 66:23-24 talking about?

One idea is that all are bowing, and they all have spiritual bodies at this point (since it must be after the resurrection), so they are looking at their own dead bodies that rebelled.

Another possibility which I think may be more likely, is that verse 23 is only talking about those alive at the first resurrection (this would be the elect), and they are looking at the carcasses of the non-elect. The non-elect would be resurrected later.

Thoughts?

Scriptures say EVERY tongue shall confess that Jesus is Lord and it also says that the only ones that can confess that Jesus is Lord is those that have the Holy Spirit. So that means everyone is going to have the Holy Spirit.

[Shawn71]

He said He would pour His Spirit out on all flesh.

[legoman]

Originally Posted by trettep

Scriptures say EVERY tongue shall confess that Jesus is Lord and it also says that the only ones that can confess that Jesus is Lord is those that have the Holy Spirit. So that means everyone is going to have the Holy Spirit.

Agreed. Most people don't see it that way though.

Originally Posted by Shawn71

He said He would pour His Spirit out on all flesh.

Yep.

Joel 2:28 And afterward,
I will pour out my Spirit on all people.
Your sons and daughters will prophesy,
your old men will dream dreams,
your young men will see visions.

This points to all people coming to and accepting Christ when they bow and confess His name.

[Eusebius]

Originally Posted by Nikk

It will be everyone. Those destined for hell will bow, but not in reverence. Bowing just means you know who you are bowing to is of greater authority than you are.

Dear Nikk, of what use will it be to all those in hell if they are also filled with the holy spirit? Of what use will it be to them and to God when God is All in all of them (1 Cor.15:28)?

The reason I ask is that "no one can say that Jesus is Lord except by holy spirit" (1 Cor.12:3) especially when they are all saying Jesus is Lord to the glory of God. Surely they would be doing it in hypocrisy if they were doing it in your so-called "hell."

[HotinAZ]

Originally Posted by Shawn71

He said He would pour His Spirit out on all flesh.

He already did.

[Shawn71]

Originally Posted by HotinAZ

He already did.

I never said he didn't, and I don't disagree my friend.

Context. It was spoken in the past by a prophet.