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So what about the people who don't believe in the trinity theory? I think they're called Oneness believers. Neither of those theories really make sense to me. But what do trinitarians think of them?
So what about the people who don't believe in the trinity theory? I think they're called Oneness believers. Neither of those theories really make sense to me. But what do trinitarians think of them?
Do you guys think they'll all go hell if they are wrong? I am sure that they think ya'll are hell bound for not believing like they do. I don't see why god would punish someone for not understanding something. Do you?
28I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. 29My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand. 30I and the Father are one."
31Again the Jews picked up stones to stone him,
Apparently the Jews thought he was saying that too... but instead of rebuking them he restates in vs. 37-39
John 10:37-39 (New International Version)
37Do not believe me unless I do what my Father does. 38But if I do it, even though you do not believe me, believe the miracles, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father." 39Again they tried to seize him, but he escaped their grasp.
In verse 30 the word "one" specifies "unity" in a general, not personal, sense.
The phrase "Father is in me, and I in the Father" is representative of the unity expressed by the word "one" in verse 30.
In context I would say no, he was not professing to be God, just that everything he said came from God and they should listen to it.
John 14:8-10 (New International Version)
8Philip said, "Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us."
9Jesus answered: "Don't you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father'? 10Don't you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you are not just my own. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work.
Again here the explanation is stated in verse 10 and is the same message as before. God is in him. He is not God.
Matthew 3:16-17 (New International Version)
16As soon as Jesus was baptized, he went up out of the water. At that moment heaven was opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and lighting on him. 17And a voice from heaven said, "This is my Son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased."
Ok so obviously the word trinity is not found in the bible so we are looking for the idea of the trinity... Jesus says in verse 15 that it is necessary for him to receive the Spirit of God. He does. Then God (we can deduce as the voice) says this is his son.
If you can interchange God with Jesus and the Spirit of God then the verse reads like this:
As soon as God was baptized, he went up out of the water. At that moment heaven was opened, and he saw God descending like a dove and lighting on him. And God said,"This is my son, whom I love; with him I am well pleased. Now does that make any sense?
Begs the question: Why did God need his own spirit and approval from himself?
There really isn't a trinity. If you would like to read up on it with an open mind I can send you a few links from reputable sources.
I guess the fact that there are apparently as many as 38,000 Christian denominations each with varying beliefs based on how they interpret or emphasize certain verses from the bible makes it not surprising, but nonetheless I find it a fascinating part of human nature that so many Christians who write on discussion boards stand so adamantly with their own denomination's particular interpretation or creed that they often ignore any other just as logical interpretation.
For example it seems to me to be perfectly clear in Matthew 3: 16-17 which you quoted that there are three separate and distinct persons in the Godhead, each of them physically manifest at the same time. (Jesus in his physical body, God the Father speaking, and the dove symbolic of the Holy Ghost.) But those who have been taught to believe the confusing doctrines that emanated from the 4th and 5th century Nicene councils just can't bring themselves to consider that as a possibility.
"And Jesus, when he was baptized went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased." Matthew 3: 16-17
How nice....
but I haven't read your logical dismissal of Jesus' baptism.....yet
Jesus' baptism?
Oh yeah! I didn't address that and here is why... you say God is three persons in one Godhead... yet you see that if God is baptized and God comes down and fills God then God states his approval to both himselves ???? It doesn't make any sense.
How can I address something like that? Your reply (as have many before you said) would be that it is too hard for me too understand as God is too complex...
Not really surprising. God is the one and only God. Jesus is his servant as are we!
Ever thought what God would think if you were praying to Jesus rather than God. Wouldn't that be the same as the OT people praying to another god?
Galatians 3:20 (New International Version) 20 A mediator, however, does not represent just one party; but God is one.
God is one party, Humans are one party... and Jesus is the mediator. Can the mediator and the parties be the same being? I don't think you understand the bible as well as you think you do. There is no need for Christ as mediator, from God's perspective, even though he was one. It was done to help man, but God alone has always advocated Love and the relationship between him and man. But we have a mediator... Jesus Christ who is not God but created by God for the purpose of Salvation.
Do you guys think they'll all go hell if they are wrong? I am sure that they think ya'll are hell bound for not believing like they do. I don't see why god would punish someone for not understanding something. Do you?
Not speaking for any other....
Yes.
God refers to himself plurally, yet singularly.
Isaiah 6:8
Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, "Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?"
Not to acknowledge at Jesus' baptism that the trinity exists is not God's fault. A saving faith must include who God is.
Do you guys think they'll all go hell if they are wrong? I am sure that they think ya'll are hell bound for not believing like they do. I don't see why god would punish someone for not understanding something. Do you?
Heavenly Father's plan of happiness in which His children would have an opportunity to take a turn on earth was not designed to punish them! It was designed to save and exalt them. We were so excited about that plan when He announced it in the premortal existence that we shouted for JOY!
"When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?" Job 38: 7
Believe in Christ and do your best to live the way he taught we should live, including loving and serving others, and all will be well with you. Of that I am certain...
Not speaking for any other....
Yes.
God refers to himself plurally, yet singularly.
Isaiah 6:8
Then I heard the voice of the Lord saying, "Whom shall I send? And who will go for us?"
Not to acknowledge at Jesus' baptism that the trinity exists is not God's fault. A saving faith must include who God is.
Well okay. So you love a god who you think will punish people for a lack of understanding? I don't punish my child for not understanding algebra and getting an F on a test. I will never understand this love for god that people express.
Heavenly Father's plan of happiness in which His children would have an opportunity to take a turn on earth was not designed to punish them! It was designed to save and exalt them. We were so excited about that plan when He announced it in the premortal existence that we shouted for JOY!
"When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?" Job 38: 7
Believe in Christ and do your best to live the way he taught we should live, including loving and serving others, and all will be well with you. Of that I am certain...
The plan............Paul prophesied about "the plan"
Galations 1:8-9
"But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned!
As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned!"
1 Corinthians 1:18
" For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God." This is Heavenly fathers plan....the message of the cross.....not all you can do.
Last edited by twin.spin; 09-13-2009 at 10:43 PM..
Well okay. So you love a god who you think will punish people for a lack of understanding? I don't punish my child for not understanding algebra and getting an F on a test. I will never understand this love for god that people express.
Well, actually this is a Christian thread.
To an unbelivers ear..God is either unjust or crazy.
1 Corinthians 1:18
[ Christ the Wisdom and Power of God ] For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God.
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