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We are being chastised even now. This life we are now living is chastisement.
I agree.
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The scriptures are telling us that there will be aionios chastisement which tells me there will be even further chastisement.
I don't disagree. There seems to be Scripture that indicates that there are one or more ages yet to come and no reason to think that there will not be people being chastised in those ages. But chastisement pertains only to the ages. Once the ages end, so does chastisement.
I don't disagree. There seems to be Scripture that indicates that there are one or more ages yet to come and no reason to think that there will not be people being chastised in those ages. But chastisement pertains only to the ages. Once the ages end, so does chastisement.
Ah! That explains why you would need for aionios NOT to simply mean "pertaining to the ages", whereas those of us who DO believe there is an end to the ages don't have a problem with that definition. It seems to me that that's what the conversation needs to focus on then. Can you share why, Scripturally, you believe that ages don't end? Frankly, I've never considered that as a possibility so can't recall off-hand what Scriptures lead me to believe otherwise. It'll be a good thing for me to search out.
Ah! That explains why you would need for aionios NOT to simply mean "pertaining to the ages", whereas those of us who DO believe there is an end to the ages don't have a problem with that definition. It seems to me that that's what the conversation needs to focus on then. Can you share why, Scripturally, you believe that ages don't end? Frankly, I've never considered that as a possibility so can't recall off-hand what Scriptures lead me to believe otherwise. It'll be a good thing for me to search out.
No, I don't need aionios for that reason. For example, the scriptures say a secret was aionios. Now if the secret was kept for all the ages then it couldn't have been revealed now and yet we learn it has been. And if it has been revealed in this age then it can't be a secret for the next age - thus "pertaining to the ages" fails on so many uses.
I don't have to prove scripturally that ages don't end. This should be common sense. If you said that ages come to an end and then say something comes after that then it would still be another age.
No, I don't need aionios for that reason. For example, the scriptures say a secret was aionios. Now if the secret was kept for all the ages then it couldn't have been revealed now and yet we learn it has been. And if it has been revealed in this age then it can't be a secret for the next age - thus "pertaining to the ages" fails on so many uses.
I've seen others explain why they see that reason as faulty in several posts, so I won't reply to this.
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I don't have to prove scripturally that ages don't end. This should be common sense. If you said that ages come to an end and then say something comes after that then it would still be another age.
Paul
It wasn't a challenge, Paul. I've been following the conversation with interest and up to this point could not make sense of why you were so adamant about your point of view. Personally, if you are correct about ages not ending, then I could see your point as having validity. So, I was inviting you to share your reasons, Scripturally.
Now if ages do end, then time also ends and since we are time-bound creatures that's a very difficult if not impossible concept to grasp. To say something comes "after time" is proof of just how bound we are to the concept of time. But that doesn't mean that time could not end simply because we cannot comprehend it.
What do you make, for instance, of Hebrews 9:26
26 since it had behoved him many times to suffer from the foundation of the world, but now once, at the full end of the ages, for putting away of sin through his sacrifice, he hath been manifested;
Does this not say what it seems to say? That there is a full end to the ages?
I've seen others explain why they see that reason as faulty in several posts, so I won't reply to this.
It wasn't a challenge, Paul. I've been following the conversation with interest and up to this point could not make sense of why you were so adamant about your point of view. Personally, if you are correct about ages not ending, then I could see your point as having validity. So, I was inviting you to share your reasons, Scripturally.
Now if ages do end, then time also ends and since we are time-bound creatures that's a very difficult if not impossible concept to grasp. To say something comes "after time" is proof of just how bound we are to the concept of time. But that doesn't mean that time could not end simply because we cannot comprehend it.
What do you make, for instance, of Hebrews 9:26
26 since it had behoved him many times to suffer from the foundation of the world, but now once, at the full end of the ages, for putting away of sin through his sacrifice, he hath been manifested;
Does this not say what it seems to say? That there is a full end to the ages?
I believe that is only speaking to the end of the ages of that context. Obviously, you believe that life continues thereafter don't you? If so then that is another age. Also, I don't believe in a point where there is NO time. Time is just a measurement existence.
I believe that is only speaking to the end of the ages of that context. Obviously, you believe that life continues thereafter don't you?
Life and time are not the same thing. Life IS in God, who exists outside of time.
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If so then that is another age. Also, I don't believe in a point where there is NO time. Time is just a measurement existence.
Paul
Except that the Bible is clear that there was a point BEFORE the ages, or in other words, "before time". If there was a point when time (the ages) began, why cannot time (the ages) also end?
I believe that is only speaking to the end of the ages of that context.
Paul
By the way, Paul, if you can see this Hebrews passage speaking, in context, of only some ages, why cannot the passage in Romans be speaking in context of a secret pertaining only to some ages?
Life and time are not the same thing. Life IS in God, who exists outside of time.
Except that the Bible is clear that there was a point BEFORE the ages, or in other words, "before time". If there was a point when time (the ages) began, why cannot time (the ages) also end?
I believe there is ALWAYS time. As for a point before the ages, we can discuss that - put forward the scriptures that you believe show there was a point before the ages.
By the way, Paul, if you can see this Hebrews passage speaking, in context, of only some ages, why cannot the passage in Romans be speaking in context of a secret pertaining only to some ages?
I actually do see the secret spoke of in Romans speaking specifically to being before this age since it uses aionios.
Paul
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