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R
Hopefully you can see that these are all symbols. Yet....
Yet... behind all the symbols there is a real thing....
When we see a verse talking about "The lamb that was slain".,...The death spoken of is not just a myth.
not just a story.
not just a vague symbol
there really was a very real death....
So in other words, for all the heavy use of symbol in the book of Revelation, (and trust me, there is a ton) there is a very real literal truth that is correctly represented with the symbol.
Thus, the Lamb correctly represents the Lord Jesus..and the death of the Lamb is a very real death of our Lord.
So the symbol of the lake of fire would be of what? The image we get by the term "Lake of Fire" is one of unfathomable suffering and pain.
It is a "lake of fire"...not a lake set on fire.
The lost that are tossed into the lake of fire are completely immersed in the flames...
The pain of being burned by fire is very real....let us not try to lower that to being seen only as a "silly wives tale"
The pain is real...
When you look at both the book of Revelation and the story of Lazarus you see that the main concern of the people in hell is their ever-present physical sufferings...
I think you got me mixed up with ....well..lots of other people.
LOL
I think I have written many times on the very simplistic faith I believe it.
At least I remember writing on that topic a bunch of times
I believe that we are saved by Grace though our faith...
and thats it..
No works.
I do not believe that you MUST be baptized to be saved..and this the one idea that I have gets me into the most trouble with my brothers...
But I believe that you have to allow for the most short and simple path to heaven that the Bible talks about...as in the thief on the cross, who only turned to Christ and believe in his Resurrection and was saved...
Thus I believe that all Christians must and only need Believe in the resurrection.
What amazes me is that you can believe that the "unfathomable suffering and pain" never comes to an end, and not go stark raving mad thinking about the idea that almost everyone around you, within your frame of reference, (except you of course) is going to have to experience that eternally!
I call it the "I'm alright Jack, too bad for you" syndrome.
Exactly Roger.
Quote:
Originally Posted by alanMolstad
Yet... behind all the symbols there is a real thing....
When we see a verse talking about "The lamb that was slain".,...The death spoken of is not just a myth.
not just a story.
not just a vague symbol
there really was a very real death....
So in other words, for all the heavy use of symbol in the book of Revelation, (and trust me, there is a ton) there is a very real literal truth that is correctly represented with the symbol.
Thus, the Lamb correctly represents the Lord Jesus..and the death of the Lamb is a very real death of our Lord.
I agree. Behind all the symbols there is a very real thing. Even the lake of fire. But it is not really physical fire as you said previously.
Quote:
So the symbol of the lake of fire would be of what? The image we get by the term "Lake of Fire" is one of unfathomable suffering and pain.
It is a "lake of fire"...not a lake set on fire.
The lost that are tossed into the lake of fire are completely immersed in the flames...
The pain of being burned by fire is very real....let us not try to lower that to being seen only as a "silly wives tale"
The pain is real...
When you look at both the book of Revelation and the story of Lazarus you see that the main concern of the people in hell is their ever-present physical sufferings...
The lake of fire has no lifeguard on duty...
I'm not saying the lake of fire won't be painful, nor am I saying its a "silly wives tale". I'm saying that it is a symbol for what many will have to go through.
And this symbol has a much greater purpose than simple pure infinite pain. You say "the lake of fire has no lifeguard on duty". Sure, you can say that, but scripture does say it is in the presence of the lamb (JESUS).
Fire as a symbol tells us what the Lake of Fire will do. Yes those thrown into it will be immersed in this fire. Fire:
burns
destroys
changes
purifies
refines
purges
All of these things will occur in the lake of fire. Not literally as physical fire burning physical flesh, but as spiritual fire burning out the carnal nature, while also refining and purifying the spiritual, as gold is refined in flames. That is what the lake of fire is. Its not some eternal torture chamber.
Saying the Lake of Fire is purely to cause eternal pain is one of the most carnal and evil things a man can think. I thought it myself for many years.
Yet... behind all the symbols there is a real thing.... When we see a verse talking about "The lamb that was slain".,...The death spoken of is not just a myth. not just a story. not just a vague symbol
there really was a very real death....
So in other words, for all the heavy use of symbol in the book of Revelation, (and trust me, there is a ton) there is a very real literal truth that is correctly represented with the symbol.
Thus, the Lamb correctly represents the Lord Jesus..and the death of the Lamb is a very real death of our Lord.
So the symbol of the lake of fire would be of what? The image we get by the term "Lake of Fire" is one of unfathomable suffering and pain.
It is a "lake of fire"...not a lake set on fire. The lost that are tossed into the lake of fire are completely immersed in the flames...
The pain of being burned by fire is very real....let us not try to lower that to being seen only as a "silly wives tale"
The pain is real... When you look at both the book of Revelation and the story of Lazarus you see that the main concern of the people in hell is their ever-present physical sufferings...
The lake of fire has no lifeguard on duty...
Lake = Water
Water is used for....cleansing, need water to live/life
Fire & Brimstone = Divine Fire
Divine Fire is used to...change the composition, refine, purify
(Always remember that fire doesn't destory...there is still something there even after the fire is finished)
So Lake of Fire = Cleansing Purification of all impurities
Mal 3:2...For He is like a refiner's fire and like fullers' soap.
3 "He will sit as a smelter and purifier of silver, and He will purify the sons of Levi and refine them like gold and silver, so that they may present to the LORD offerings in righteousness.
Mark 9:49 For everyone will be salted with fire. (This includes you and me Buddy!)
1 Cor 3:10 According to the grace of God which was given to me, like a wise master builder I laid a foundation, and another is building on it. But each man must be careful how he builds on it.
11 For no man can lay a foundation other than the one which is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
12 Now if any man builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw,
13 each man's work will become evident; for the day will show it because it is to be revealed with fire, and the fire itself will test the quality of each man's work.
14 If any man's work which he has built on it remains, he will receive a reward.
15 If any man's work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.
Water is used for....cleansing, need water to live/life
Fire & Brimstone = Divine Fire
Divine Fire is used to...change the composition, refine, purify
(Always remember that fire doesn't destory...there is still something there even after the fire is finished)
So Lake of Fire = Cleansing Purification of all impurities
Mal 3:2...For He is like a refiner's fire and like fullers' soap.
3 "He will sit as a smelter and purifier of silver, and He will purify the sons of Levi and refine them like gold and silver, so that they may present to the LORD offerings in righteousness.
Mark 9:49 For everyone will be salted with fire. (This includes you and me Buddy!)
1 Cor 3:10 According to the grace of God which was given to me, like a wise master builder I laid a foundation, and another is building on it. But each man must be careful how he builds on it.
11 For no man can lay a foundation other than the one which is laid, which is Jesus Christ.
12 Now if any man builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw,
13 each man's work will become evident; for the day will show it because it is to be revealed with fire, and the fire itself will test the quality of each man's work.
14 If any man's work which he has built on it remains, he will receive a reward.
15 If any man's work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.
Bingo.
Lake of fire = Lake of divine fire for cleansing & purification.
Amazing how the truth comes out when you actually look at the scriptural purpose for fire!
Lake of fire = Lake of divine fire for cleansing & purification.
Amazing how the truth comes out when you actually look at the scriptural purpose for fire!
But isn't this only for believers?
Those who claim to be perfect, righteous and lacking nothing to hinder them from entering into the Kingdom will never see it as applying to themselves....maybe they'll get the big picture when that pride is burned right out of them.
It helps me cope, too, Roger. I know how horrific that kind of breakdown is, having gone through it myself. Seeing our suffering mocked is difficult, to be honest, but it can't begin to compare to the pain that the doctrine of ET caused. Nor can being mocked override, in any way, God's awesome mercy in releasing us from that pain by revealing the truth that Scripture declares God's glorious plan of the restitution of ALL. What a good and gracious God we serve!
Thank you for your courage in sharing what you do, for being so transparent and real and up front about what you've gone through, so that others can also be released. You are a blessing.
I think it's probably safe to say that most agnostics became agnostic because of people who believe that.
Most decent people would rather live out their life as an agnostic who enjoys treating other people the way they would like to be treated, and hope to find out in the afterlife that God is not like that, than put their trust in any book (like the Bible or the Koran) that says that God is like that.
Like I said before, everyone will choose to believe whatever they are convinced is the truth about what the Bible teaches.
I’m just so glad that I learned about the following information because it enabled me to recover from a twelve year nervous breakdown, (1966-78), an ordeal which, for some unexplained reason, seems to amuse Alan.
I’m 70 years old now.
People who can love an “eternal torment” or “annihilationist” god will not be interested in the following information.
But people who cannot love an “eternal torment” or “annihilationist” god will discover that most of the arguments against the Bible teaching universal salvation have been refuted in the following links.
Fundamentalists simply cant understand that their false doctrines cause unbelievers to blaspheme the name of God and Christ whom he sent.
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Salvation out of the lake of fire which is the 2nd death
