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I have read many articles on these words, and I have seen the reference to this grammer rule. The words aion and aionios cannot be the only two words that this rule applies to.
"An adjective cannot have a greater meaning than the noun it was derived from"
Simply document where this rule officially exists and I will rethink my position. Should be pretty straight forward for someone to do.
Again, i am not an authority on these things, and i might be wrong. I cannot off hand provide a grammatical law for the Koine Greek saying the adjectives cannot be stronger than the noun from which they derive ... I cant provide one for the English language either off hand. I challenge you to present an adjective that proves this to be false though. Superior and super does not suffice and i imagine you will at the very least be hard pressed to provide an example.
Example, your "yearly income" is your income as it pertains to a years worth of work. You wouldn't say that your yearly income pertain to 10 years of work, or to an eternity of work. I don't think this has to be proven by a scholarly paper, but you are welcome to believe what ever you want on the issue. As roger said, whether or not aionios or aionion could or should be translated as eternal would not change the fact that the bible speaks of the reconciliation of all creation to God in the fullness of times. It would simply take a little more explanation to make sense of it all. I don't see that to be that case at all though.
I challenge you to present an adjective that proves this to be false though. Superior and super does not suffice and i imagine you will at the very least be hard pressed to provide an example.
It doesn't suffice for you, and the example is sound as well as the english words eon and eonion. The problem is your admittance to the lack of an official documented source that explains this grammatical law.
The grammatical law is your assertion of truth, where is it's documentation? And if you cannot document it, please provide sound reasoning why you can assert a grammatical function that cannot be documented anywhere.
It doesn't suffice for you, and the example is sound as well as the english words eon and eonion. The problem is your admittance to the lack of an official documented source that explains this grammatical law.
The grammatical law is your assertion of truth, where is it's documentation? And if you cannot document it, please provide sound reasoning why you can assert a grammatical function that cannot be documented anywhere.
Phazelwood, I don't think documentation of a "grammatical law" is required because if you will actually open and read the content of this concordance, I think it should become evident to you by its usage that in every case in the New Testament aion and aionious should always be translated as a limited period of time.
I am also intrigued by your statement on post #179, namely
"The ways and contexts that render the words aion and aionios various ways is a blessing when you see it."
Can you expand on that thought?
I ask that because for me it is a greater blessing to be able to perseceive aion and aionios as always a limited period of time, just like the above concordance illustrates.
Thanks
Last edited by rodgertutt; 09-21-2009 at 05:13 PM..
Reason: added question
Phazelwood, I don't think documentation of a "grammatical law" is required because if you will actually open and read the content of this concordance.
So, in other words, you see it being reasonable to claim that a word cannot be a certain meaning based upon a rule of grammar that appears to not exist?
If the rule of grammar is true and a reasonable one that language must adhere to then it should not be that much of a problem to document.
I am also intrigued by your statement on post #179, namely
"The ways and contexts that render the words aion and aionios various ways is a blessing when you see it."
Can you expand on that thought?
I ask that because for me it is a greater blessing to be able to perseceive aion and aionios as always a limited period of time, just like the above concordance illustrates.
Thanks
Well, whenever I get in a state of mind where what I am going through is tough I am reminded that scripture gives the dual image of knowing that what appears to last "forever" is only a measure of temporary time.
I also know that his quality of long suffering is eternal, so I know that even what I get myself into, as dire as it may be, God will not give up on me. So there are various ways to take the same word, based on the context in which it is seen not contradicting Gods character or scriputure and it is a greater blessing.
I personally understand where you are coming from, however, I do not believe our belief in what may be true that opposes another gives us the license to make false claims.
To me this grammar rule is a false claim, because it is used and asserted, but no one has documented it's existance.
I do not feel the burden of proof is on me here, you can either document this grammar rule or you cannot.
I also know that his quality of long suffering is eternal, so I know that even what I get myself into, as dire as it may be, God will not give up on me. So there are various ways to take the same word, based on the context in which it is seen not contradicting Gods character or scripture and it is a greater blessing.
I see God's long suffering as "eonian," because after the consummation of the eons He will no longer need to be long suffering with anyone since He will be All in all.
It doesn't suffice for you, and the example is sound as well as the english words eon and eonion. The problem is your admittance to the lack of an official documented source that explains this grammatical law.
The grammatical law is your assertion of truth, where is it's documentation? And if you cannot document it, please provide sound reasoning why you can assert a grammatical function that cannot be documented anywhere.
I believe the law is at least implied, in that if an adjective is derived from a noun, the adjective pertains to the meaning of that noun. It is implied by the derivation itself, that is the point of etymology deriving meaning from roots. If you say that a word which is derived from another word, that is to say an adjective which is used to denote quality, the adjective derived must pertain to the word from whence it derives. I don't think it is necessary to have a law for it. That is not to say there isn't a law, but i am not a grammar professor of any language, so i cannot and do not say that there is for certain one. Just because i cannot at this time provide such a documented law doesn't mean that it does not exist. However i will do my best to try and find documented evidence of this, though i really dont see why it is necessary logically.
So let us go beyond this to the word at hand ... aionios. I believe aion can only mean age. I dont know of any language where one single noun can mean 4 different and sometimes fundamentally opposing things. Beyond the fact that aion means age, as we see it used in specific in Ephesians chapter three, aionios is only the root aion and the suffix -ios.
Quote:
Aionios is "aion" + "ios." Aion means age. The suffix -ios means pertaining to or relating to. So, aion-ios properly means "pertaining to aion" or more simply "relating to an age."
Example: In ancient Greek texts - and evident in Homer - a man's hometown would be part of his name. The suffix
-ios would signify which town by modifying it into an adjective. Thus, "Ajax son of Telamon" translates to "Aias Telamwvios." The English works similarly with the suffix -ian: If a man is from Italy, he is an Italian.
So, for aionios to mean eternity, in its own construct, aion must mean eternity so that aion-ios can mean "pertainingto eternity" or "of eternity." However, since we know that aion means "age," we then know that aionios actually means "pertaining to ages" or "of ages."
Now, this pretty much defeats the claim that aionios could mean anything different than of or pertaining to the aion or aions. The aions are not eternal according to Paul but will come to an end in the fullness of times at the consummation of the aions. I'm not sure why you have difficulty with this.
I see God's long suffering as "eonian," because after the consummation of the eons He will no longer need to be long suffering with anyone since He will be All in all.
I never said it does not apply, I am asking you to document the grammar rule, either you can or you can't and either path means something.
All maintaining a stance that cannot be documented does is limit what we can see. God may be all in all, suggesting that He is incomplete, but is he incomplete, or is all in all a reference to the reconcilation of this creation?
Are we (this existance) the only creation that ever was or will be? I think Gods duality of long suffering being eternal and temporary at the same time applys to a limited amount of time for us, but eternally always creating, always expanding, always complete yet always more.
Now, this pretty much defeats the claim that aionios could mean anything different than of or pertaining to the aion or aions. The aions are not eternal according to Paul but will come to an end in the fullness of times at the consummation of the aions. I'm not sure why you have difficulty with this.
No because aion does not only mean an age in the first place.
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The eons of the bible with concordance
