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Again, my point is that to preach that aionios refers to a limited duration is ERROR. It also misses the point that was being preached. When you see AIONIOS for what it means it shows that the NEXT Age is being heralded. AIONIOS just means that something will CONTINUE to exist beyond this age.
Again aionios doesn't speak to an end point. Does anyone really think that we would speak of AIONIOS Life in such a limiting manner? Of course not. The AIONIOS LIFE is just life that continues beyond this age.
Again, my point is that to preach that aionios refers to a limited duration is ERROR. It also misses the point that was being preached. When you see AIONIOS for what it means it shows that the NEXT Age is being heralded. AIONIOS just means that something will CONTINUE to exist beyond this age.
Again aionios doesn't speak to an end point. Does anyone really think that we would speak of AIONIOS Life in such a limiting manner? Of course not. The AIONIOS LIFE is just life that continues beyond this age.
Paul
Dear Paul,
Of course aionios life is the life pertaining to the eons.
Since no eon (aion) is endless, it is impossible for the life pertaining to the eons to be endless.
Examples of adjectives and their relationship to the noun:
Adj.: American
Noun: President
Obama is the American President. His presidency pertains to America.
Adj: Heavenly
Noun: angel
The heavenly angel visited Mary. The realm of the angel pertains to heaven.
Adj: Eonian (aionios)
noun: chastening/life
These shall go away into eonian chastening yet the just into eonian life (Matt.25:46). Both the punishing and the life is pertaining to that specific 1000 year long eon.
Will we die with the eons end? No. Why? Because on top of having aionios life we also put on immortality.
Quote:
You wrote:
AIONIOS just means that something will CONTINUE to exist beyond this age.
That is not how nouns and adjectives work, Paul. The adjective in the Bible cannot be greater than the noun from which it is derived. Also, the duty of the adjectives, besides modifying the noun i.e. "aionios God" informs of that which is being modified by the adjective that it pertains to the noun.
For instance, the "aionios God" (Romans 16:26) (mistranslated "eternal God" in some bibles) does not tell us how long God lives but rather informs us of His relationship to the eons. He is the God pertaining to the non-eternal eons. He is over them, directing them, subjecting humanity to the goals He has in each eon.
Dear Paul,
Of course aionios life is the life pertaining to the eons.
Since no eon (aion) is endless, it is impossible for the life pertaining to the eons to be endless.
Examples of adjectives and their relationship to the noun:
Adj.: American
Noun: President
Obama is the American President. His presidency pertains to America.
Adj: Heavenly
Noun: angel
The heavenly angel visited Mary. The realm of the angel pertains to heaven.
Adj: Eonian (aionios)
noun: chastening/life
These shall go away into eonian chastening yet the just into eonian life (Matt.25:46). Both the punishing and the life is pertaining to that specific 1000 year long eon.
Will we die with the eons end? No. Why? Because on top of having aionios life we also put on immortality.
That is not how nouns and adjectives work, Paul. The adjective in the Bible cannot be greater than the noun from which it is derived. Also, the duty of the adjectives, besides modifying the noun i.e. "aionios God" informs of that which is being modified by the adjective that it pertains to the noun.
For instance, the "aionios God" (Romans 16:26) (mistranslated "eternal God" in some bibles) does not tell us how long God lives but rather informs us of His relationship to the eons. He is the God pertaining to the non-eternal eons. He is over them, directing them, subjecting humanity to the goals He has in each eon.
Eusebius
I agree with Eusebius.
For aionios, to mean "eternal" its noun form MUST mean eternal. It doesn’t. It is impossible for the adjective aionios to mean eternal. Aionios is an adjective. Just as the function of "American" (adj.) is to inform us of that which pertains to America (it is never greater than "America") thus also the function of "aionios" (adj) is to inform us of that which pertains to the eon(s). It is never greater than the eons. No aion is eternal. Therefore it is impossible for that which pertains to the eons to be eternal.
The Bible clearly says there is an "end point" to all of the eons, both individually, and collectively.
THE EONS END, INDIVIDUALLY AND COLLECTIVELY
literal versus King James
Heb. 9:26 the end of the eons / the end of the world
1 Cor. 10:11 the ends of the eons / the ends of the world
Matt. 24:3 the end of the eon / the end of the world
To find out why I cannot agree with Paul when he says "to preach that aionios refers to a limited duration is ERROR,"
why not check out the content of this exposition?
AIÓN – AIÓNIOS AIÓN -- AIÓNIOS
Notice that a title of John Hanson's exposition asserts this statement
THE GREEK WORD AIÓN -- AIÓNIOS, TRANSLATED
Everlasting -- Eternal IN THE HOLY BIBLE, SHOWN TO DENOTE LIMITED DURATION
followed by a comprehensive examination of why that is true in every case of the use of those two words.
Last edited by rodgertutt; 09-29-2009 at 04:28 PM..
Reason: highlighting
Again, my point is that to preach that aionios refers to a limited duration is ERROR. It also misses the point that was being preached. When you see AIONIOS for what it means it shows that the NEXT Age is being heralded. AIONIOS just means that something will CONTINUE to exist beyond this age.
Again aionios doesn't speak to an end point. Does anyone really think that we would speak of AIONIOS Life in such a limiting manner? Of course not. The AIONIOS LIFE is just life that continues beyond this age.
Paul
Paul, i wanted to ask you then why in the verses that are translated "for ever and ever" is the word aion in its plural form? If you believe aion means forever then the translation should be "for evers and evers" ... Does that make any sense to you? How many "evers" are there anyway? How many eternities are there, knowing that there is a plural form of the word aion?
Dear Paul,
Of course aionios life is the life pertaining to the eons.
Since no eon (aion) is endless, it is impossible for the life pertaining to the eons to be endless.
Examples of adjectives and their relationship to the noun:
Adj.: American
Noun: President
Obama is the American President. His presidency pertains to America.
Adj: Heavenly
Noun: angel
The heavenly angel visited Mary. The realm of the angel pertains to heaven.
Adj: Eonian (aionios)
noun: chastening/life
These shall go away into eonian chastening yet the just into eonian life (Matt.25:46). Both the punishing and the life is pertaining to that specific 1000 year long eon.
Will we die with the eons end? No. Why? Because on top of having aionios life we also put on immortality.
That is not how nouns and adjectives work, Paul. The adjective in the Bible cannot be greater than the noun from which it is derived. Also, the duty of the adjectives, besides modifying the noun i.e. "aionios God" informs of that which is being modified by the adjective that it pertains to the noun.
For instance, the "aionios God" (Romans 16:26) (mistranslated "eternal God" in some bibles) does not tell us how long God lives but rather informs us of His relationship to the eons. He is the God pertaining to the non-eternal eons. He is over them, directing them, subjecting humanity to the goals He has in each eon.
Eusebius
I'm saying that Aionios is not referring to an end point at all. Aionios can only refer to the CURRENT age and places its reference upon that age and then applies the meaning of something existing beyond it.
Sure it is an adjective and that adjective is based on aion. The aion spoken of is the CURRENT AION. It doesn't refer to ANY OTHER aion or aions. It only refers to the current aion but that which it is describing is being said to exist beyond that CURRENT aion.
...
That is not how nouns and adjectives work, Paul. The adjective in the Bible cannot be greater than the noun from which it is derived. Also, the duty of the adjectives, besides modifying the noun i.e. "aionios God" informs of that which is being modified by the adjective that it pertains to the noun.
For instance, the "aionios God" (Romans 16:26) (mistranslated "eternal God" in some bibles) does not tell us how long God lives but rather informs us of His relationship to the eons. He is the God pertaining to the non-eternal eons. He is over them, directing them, subjecting humanity to the goals He has in each eon.
Eusebius
Eusebius, your correct that the word aionios is an adjective and correct that it must refer to its root "aion". That is my argument as well. But the problem with those that content that aionios refers to a limited duration (in the future) are WRONG!!!
It ONLY refers to the CURRENT AION and APPLIES the meaning based on that CURRENT AION (the aion in context). So the current AION would be the root and meaning and base of the meaning of AIONIOS.
In other words if it says that someone will receive AIONIOS Kolasis (punishment - curtailment) then it means that one is receiving punishment BEYOND this CURRENT age. It doesn't say how Lengthy that duration is at all (which is why it doesn't address and END POINT at all). It only addresses the CONTINUING point in reference to its ROOT which is the current age.
If one is going to receive aionios Life it means they are going to receive Life BEYOND this age. That is how this adjective still pertains to its root in the context of the present age.
Paul, i wanted to ask you then why in the verses that are translated "for ever and ever" is the word aion in its plural form? If you believe aion means forever then the translation should be "for evers and evers" ... Does that make any sense to you? How many "evers" are there anyway? How many eternities are there, knowing that there is a plural form of the word aion?
Because those are AGES (aions). Where did I ever say that aion means forever? I NEVER said that aion means forever. I'm saying that aionios doesn't refer to limited duration either. I'm saying that we universalists better GET THIS RIGHT and so far too many universalist are GETTING it WRONG! They are preaching error regarding this subject. Sure it doesn't mean eternity but it also doesn't refer to a limited duration either. It speaks of a duration whose endpoint is CONCEALED from us. Let's look at Strong's Definition from the Old Testament equivalent word Olam:
H5769
עלם עולם
‛ôlâm ‛ôlâm
o-lawm', o-lawm'
From H5956; properly concealed, that is, the vanishing point; generally time out of mind (past or future), that is, (practically) eternity; frequentative adverbially (especially with prepositional prefix) always: - always (-s), ancient (time), any more, continuance, eternal, (for, [n-]) ever (-lasting, -more, of old), lasting, long (time), (of) old (time), perpetual, at any time, (beginning of the) world (+ without end). Compare H5331, H5703.
Notice the concealment is towards the vanishing point. This is telling us that the end point is concealed. It is a reference to a period that is beyond the current age. To read more into that and say that it refers to a limited time or to an endless time would be to ascribe meaning to AIONIOS that it doesn't possess.
I'm saying that Aionios is not referring to an end point at all. Aionios can only refer to the CURRENT age and places its reference upon that age and then applies the meaning of something existing beyond it.
Sure it is an adjective and that adjective is based on aion. The aion spoken of is the CURRENT AION. It doesn't refer to ANY OTHER aion or aions. It only refers to the current aion but that which it is describing is being said to exist beyond that CURRENT aion.
Paul
And I am saying that the Bible makes it clear that all of the eons come to an end, both individually, and collectively.
THE EONS END, INDIVIDUALLY AND COLLECTIVELY
literal versus King James
Heb. 9:26 the end of the eons / the end of the world
1 Cor. 10:11 the ends of the eons / the ends of the world
Matt. 24:3 the end of the eon / the end of the world
And I am also saying that IMO John Hanson's proof is irrefutable that the essence of the word aionios always means a limited period of time.
To find out why I cannot agree with Paul when he says "to preach that aionios refers to a limited duration is ERROR,"
why not check out the content of this exposition?
AIÓN – AIÓNIOS AIÓN -- AIÓNIOS
Notice that a title of John Hanson's exposition asserts this statement
THE GREEK WORD AIÓN -- AIÓNIOS, TRANSLATED
Everlasting -- Eternal IN THE HOLY BIBLE, SHOWN TO DENOTE LIMITED DURATION
followed by a comprehensive examination of why that is true in every case of the use of those two words.
Eusebius, your correct that the word aionios is an adjective and correct that it must refer to its root "aion". That is my argument as well. But the problem with those that content that aionios refers to a limited duration (in the future) are WRONG!!!
It ONLY refers to the CURRENT AION and APPLIES the meaning based on that CURRENT AION (the aion in context). So the current AION would be the root and meaning and base of the meaning of AIONIOS.
In other words if it says that someone will receive AIONIOS Kolasis (punishment - curtailment) then it means that one is receiving punishment BEYOND this CURRENT age. It doesn't say how Lengthy that duration is at all (which is why it doesn't address and END POINT at all). It only addresses the CONTINUING point in reference to its ROOT which is the current age.
If one is going to receive aionios Life it means they are going to receive Life BEYOND this age. That is how this adjective still pertains to its root in the context of the present age.
Paul
Paul please see my post 285 just above in this thread ... Will you answer my question?
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Aionios, a limited period of time
