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Old 09-15-2009, 11:55 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by virtue_summer View Post
Biggest example: Abraham doesn't just accept God with regards to Sodom but bargains with God so that God agrees that if he finds 10 righteous he will not destroy the city.

Also: Putting your values above God's is not the same as questioning God. Questioning God often happens while people are trying to find out what God's values and standards are.
That's not questioning God. I know some who believe we can in a humble spirit and open mind e.g. if a loved one dies and say, why God? so from an emotional argument I can see it but not from a logical one IMO.
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Old 09-15-2009, 11:55 AM
 
Location: Valencia, Spain
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Quote:
Originally Posted by legoman View Post
Why do people not believe: Deception, or their own choice?
Why don't you believe in Brahma: Deception or choice? There is no objective or verifiable evidence for the existence of your god so I find no reason to believe your god exists. Which, ironically, is exactly the same reason why you don't believe Brahma exists.
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Old 09-15-2009, 11:58 AM
 
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Just a June reminder:

EVERYONE KEEP IT RESPECTFUL AND NICE, OKAY PEOPLE???


"Yes, June!"



Thanks!

-June
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Old 09-15-2009, 12:00 PM
 
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yes ma'am. I had my happy pills today
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Old 09-15-2009, 12:02 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
well if you can't understand or don't believe in God's sovereignty, well then my friend you have a diliemna. Why does God allow little children to be raped and murdered?
It's actually not a dilemma at all to my beliefs, but that is as far as I will let you redirect the point.

You talk about God being righteous in whatever he does and that whatever it is we cannot understand, but the position is bogus based upon the issue YOU wish me to forget, because you come from a doctrinal point of view that you in no way are of the chosen damned.
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Old 09-15-2009, 12:03 PM
 
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Why does God allow little children to be raped and murdered?
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Old 09-15-2009, 12:05 PM
 
Location: The Milky Way Galaxy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
Why does God allow little children to be raped and murdered?
I'm still waiting for my list of questions to be answered as well that included yours and others back on post#26.
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Old 09-15-2009, 12:11 PM
 
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Quote:
Where was "god" when his priests took advantage of their "holyness powers" and molested little innocent children?
He was here

Quote:
Why is it "god" chose little Annie Le to be murdered days before her wedding destined for a life of happiness and successful career?
Sin happens. You soooooo want free will but you forget that the door swings boths ways. You see the person intent on harming you also has free will

Quote:
Where was "god" when 7yr old Megan Kanka was raped and murdered by a REPEAT sex offender?
again He was here

Quote:
Where was "god" when thousands of innocent hard working people died on 9/11?
Again here again, and the church was given by God a wonderful opportunity to preach the word to those who were seeking the answers. God orchestrates the good and the bad for our good and His glory

Quote:
Where is "god" when innocents get caught up in the gunfire wars of gangbangers and drug dealers?
He is here

Quote:
Don't even tell me "god" has reasons for this because in that statement you are just as bad as the perpetrators of all the heinous crimes.
well He does. God does everything for His glory now you may not agree with His reasons but that does not negate He has them and they are all through the bible from the stories of Moses to Job

Quote:
The hell argument is fear mongering to get people to blindly follow.
I agree some use it in that way but no should come to Christ based on Fear of hell but come to Him because He loved us so much that He died for us so that we don't have to go to such a horrible place.
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Old 09-15-2009, 12:13 PM
 
Location: All around the world.....
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
Let's use logic here and not emotion......forget hell.

If God is good and holy then how can you a mere creation question God's goodness and holiness? Is not questioning God showing you are apart from God? so if you are apart from God then how can you KNOW what is good and holy let alone question?

and if you can't understand or don't believe in God's sovereignty, well then my friend you have a diliemna.
Quote:
Why does God allow little children to be raped and murdered?



Judgement of God on a rebellious bloodline?
I have often struggled with this in the past (children molested)?
Disobedience allows it, if there is a legal ground for the adversary to gain
he will use it to destroy the plans for our lives.. and then I look at Jeremiah 29
Jeremiah 29
A Letter to the Exiles
1 This is the text of the letter that the prophet Jeremiah sent from Jerusalem to the surviving elders among the exiles and to the priests, the prophets and all the other people Nebuchadnezzar had carried into exile from Jerusalem to Babylon. 2 (This was after King Jehoiachin [a] and the queen mother, the court officials and the leaders of Judah and Jerusalem, the craftsmen and the artisans had gone into exile from Jerusalem.) 3 He entrusted the letter to Elasah son of Shaphan and to Gemariah son of Hilkiah, whom Zedekiah king of Judah sent to King Nebuchadnezzar in Babylon. It said:
4 This is what the LORD Almighty, the God of Israel, says to all those I carried into exile from Jerusalem to Babylon: 5 "Build houses and settle down; plant gardens and eat what they produce. 6 Marry and have sons and daughters; find wives for your sons and give your daughters in marriage, so that they too may have sons and daughters. Increase in number there; do not decrease. 7 Also, seek the peace and prosperity of the city to which I have carried you into exile. Pray to the LORD for it, because if it prospers, you too will prosper." 8 Yes, this is what the LORD Almighty, the God of Israel, says: "Do not let the prophets and diviners among you deceive you. Do not listen to the dreams you encourage them to have. 9 They are prophesying lies to you in my name. I have not sent them," declares the LORD.

10 This is what the LORD says: "When seventy years are completed for Babylon, I will come to you and fulfill my gracious promise to bring you back to this place. 11 For I know the plans I have for you," declares the LORD, "plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future. 12 Then you will call upon me and come and pray to me, and I will listen to you. 13 You will seek me and find me when you seek me with all your heart. 14 I will be found by you," declares the LORD, "and will bring you back from captivity. [b] I will gather you from all the nations and places where I have banished you," declares the LORD, "and will bring you back to the place from which I carried you into exile."

15 You may say, "The LORD has raised up prophets for us in Babylon," 16 but this is what the LORD says about the king who sits on David's throne and all the people who remain in this city, your countrymen who did not go with you into exile- 17 yes, this is what the LORD Almighty says: "I will send the sword, famine and plague against them and I will make them like poor figs that are so bad they cannot be eaten. 18 I will pursue them with the sword, famine and plague and will make them abhorrent to all the kingdoms of the earth and an object of cursing and horror, of scorn and reproach, among all the nations where I drive them. 19 For they have not listened to my words," declares the LORD, "words that I sent to them again and again by my servants the prophets. And you exiles have not listened either," declares the LORD.

20 Therefore, hear the word of the LORD, all you exiles whom I have sent away from Jerusalem to Babylon. 21 This is what the LORD Almighty, the God of Israel, says about Ahab son of Kolaiah and Zedekiah son of Maaseiah, who are prophesying lies to you in my name: "I will hand them over to Nebuchadnezzar king of Babylon, and he will put them to death before your very eyes. 22 Because of them, all the exiles from Judah who are in Babylon will use this curse: 'The LORD treat you like Zedekiah and Ahab, whom the king of Babylon burned in the fire.' 23 For they have done outrageous things in Israel; they have committed adultery with their neighbors' wives and in my name have spoken lies, which I did not tell them to do. I know it and am a witness to it," declares the LORD.

Message to Shemaiah
24 Tell Shemaiah the Nehelamite, 25 "This is what the LORD Almighty, the God of Israel, says: You sent letters in your own name to all the people in Jerusalem, to Zephaniah son of Maaseiah the priest, and to all the other priests. You said to Zephaniah, 26 'The LORD has appointed you priest in place of Jehoiada to be in charge of the house of the LORD; you should put any madman who acts like a prophet into the stocks and neck-irons. 27 So why have you not reprimanded Jeremiah from Anathoth, who poses as a prophet among you? 28 He has sent this message to us in Babylon: It will be a long time. Therefore build houses and settle down; plant gardens and eat what they produce.' "
29 Zephaniah the priest, however, read the letter to Jeremiah the prophet. 30 Then the word of the LORD came to Jeremiah: 31 "Send this message to all the exiles: 'This is what the LORD says about Shemaiah the Nehelamite: Because Shemaiah has prophesied to you, even though I did not send him, and has led you to believe a lie, 32 this is what the LORD says: I will surely punish Shemaiah the Nehelamite and his descendants. He will have no one left among this people, nor will he see the good things I will do for my people, declares the LORD, because he has preached rebellion against me.' "
There were men women and children that were destroyed in the days of Noah why?
Disobedience that has not been repented of or dealt with. (includes neglecting to do what is known to be the right thing)
This is why.

Last edited by yhwhshalomjr; 09-15-2009 at 12:28 PM.. Reason: added thoughts
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Old 09-15-2009, 12:17 PM
 
8,990 posts, read 8,806,488 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafius View Post
Don't go off on a tangent without addressing what we were discussing. The claim was made that your god knows, before he even created us, that some people would not believe. Yet he created them knowing full well that they would, because of their non-belief, suffer an eternity of torture for being exactly what he planned them to be. Now address the question in hand. You said that you could see the justification for that. Tell me what it is.
Not going off a tangent. You were making a case that you were innocent, I said different and built my case using His rules which justifies in His eyes for your guilt.

His sovereignty. Most if not all doctrines even the ones taught in Sunday school we do not fully understand but we trust that everything He does is for our good and His glory like He said because He is God, why shouldn't we believe? He is God.

If God exist then what He says goes, His attributes gives Him the glory and seeks the glory because if He didn't seek His glory He wouldn't be God. This is His nature.

God just is.
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