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Legoman why do non- believers have to pay property tax for churches. Instead of preaching your BS why not pay your fair share- instead of us paying it for you. I know you'd whine and complain if it was the other way around and believers had to pay for their own churches but buildings for non-believers would be tax free.
Heh! be nice.....same can be said for many groups. We Christians have to pay for abortions. so my friend....your point??
The more I study the Sovereignty of God, the more I am leaning towards UR and have just about fully made up my mind to camp there. I've never believed in ET so that really has never been an issue for me. I am also a Full Preterist, which gives me a completely different perspective on the future and that is also called heresy by some. I truly believe that those God does not choose to follow Him will have redemption just as we as believers do. What some forget is that God uses vessels of wrath to make known to us, the vessels of mercy, the riches of His glory...not that He is somehow trying to glorify Himself. God is truly a God of justice and mercy and I know that He will deal with those He hasn't called mercifully. Knowing the nature of God the way I do, I am assured of that.
Good points. The vessels of wrath are not simply made to be vessels of wrath so God can be wrathful. They are there for a good purpose. In effect they have been deceived. God hardened pharaoh - Pharaoh was deceived - Pharaoh crushed Israel - eventually Pharaoh was crushed. It all served a good purpose and example that will be fully understood later. It also doesn't mean God won't deal mercifully with Pharaoh.
God did. He was Pharoah, ruler of Egypt. God blessed Pharoh in so many ways
I don't think that is the full extent of his "blessing" though.
You really think "hey Pharaoh you had it good while you were on earth, you got to crush all those Israelites, and you had all those slaves. So now I have to torment you for eternity" is really balancing things out?
I would think that would be more of a curse than a blessing to be hardened by God.
i can't be drawn into a fallacy i don't want to participate in. if i'm going to believe something I KNOW is a fantasy, it's gotta be fun. and loving.
i was born a heretic - i question everything relentlessly. i've been a skeptic ever since i was introduced to theology (first grade St. Joseph's in Carpenteria, CA 1965).
I don't think that is the full extent of his "blessing" though.
You really think "hey Pharaoh you had it good while you were on earth, you got to crush all those Israelites, and you had all those slaves. So now I have to torment you for eternity" is really balancing things out?
I would think that would be more of a curse than a blessing to be hardened by God.
tsk...tsk....Balanced? The truth is we all deserve hell because we all broke His laws. God would still be gracious and merciful even if He allowed only one human in heaven. We all deserve punishment including Pharoh so God is justified in punishing Pharoh or even I.
"Hardening" is not what you think. All our hearts are hardened, it is by the grace of God that He restrains our hearts. I am wicked just as much as Pharoh, I am just as worse as Hitler but because God restrains my heart that is why I do more "good" than Pharoh because God wills it. God didn't "harden" Pharoh's heart, it means that God let Pharoh go, He turned him over to his true nature.
Could Hitler have done worse? Why didn't He? What makes you different from Hitler?
Last edited by Fundamentalist; 09-15-2009 at 02:28 PM..
Neither. It just isn't their time. Faith isn't a choice of will. It's a gift from God:
"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God." Ephesians 2:8
It is not faith that's a gift, it's salvation that's a gift as a result of faith that is directed toward Christ who removed sin as an issue in salvation. The last part of that verse is ' not as a result of works, that no man may boast.'
tsk...tsk....Balanced? The truth is we all deserve hell because we all broke His laws. God would still be gracious and merciful even if He allowed only one human in heaven. We all deserve punishment including Pharoh so God is justified in punishing Pharoh or even I.
God is beyond fair, beyond "balanced" - He is love. The truth is we all deserve death (not eternal hell). God set it up that way. However God also sent His son to show that death (and sin) will be destroyed.
The "punishment" we all deserve is simply correction.
Quote:
"Hardening" is not what you think. All our hearts are hardened, it is by the grace of God that He restrains our hearts. I am wicked just as much as Pharoh, I am just as worse as Hitler but because God restrains my heart that is why I do more "good" than Pharoh because God wills it. God didn't "harden" Pharoh's heart, it means that God let Pharoh go, He turned him over to his true nature.
Could Hitler have done worse? Why didn't He? What makes you different from Hitler?
ChristyGrl said it well. God is sovereign - He controls how far someone goes, even Hitler. And the only thing that makes me different from Hitler is God's good grace and sovereign choice that made me what I am (which is not Hitler). For that I am thankful.
But God even made Hitler for a purpose. Hitler didn't have a "free" choice in the matter. And because of that God will eventually have mercy on Hitler as well. Hitler will be corrected.
The more I think about it, the more I realize this life is a big training ground. We are all learning. Many things are a mystery (or seem to be) simply because we need to learn certain things first, and other things are not yet ready to be revealed. The whole point is not to figure out "how to get saved" or "to avoid hell". The whole point is to learn - God is forming us into His image as we speak. This is good.
Peace.
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