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I apologize for the misunderstanding, sparrow . . . the "demand" was not a reference to you or your attitude in any way. I was referencing the end of my previous post where I said "The system is remarkably sound because the doctrine only requires revision when the audience has evolved the necessary understanding to demand it." You are definitely one of the beautiful people at C-D . . . you exude the love of Christ. So sorry I offended you.
It's ok. I'm sorry... I may just be ultra-sensitive tonight, I admit.
Having a funky day. I probably shouldn't be on discussion boards trying to talk to folks when my mind is in this state.
Talk to you later, Mystic.
sorry for just focusing on that one sentence in your post.
Forgive me, friend.
sparrow
Even without dying? How can it be a resurrected body if it hasn't died?
Those who have died at the time that Christ returns for the Church will have their bodies resurrected. Those who are alive at the time of the rapture will have their bodies changed in an instant from a body of corruption into a glorified body of incorruption.
1 Cor. 15:51 Behold, I tell you a mystery; we shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52) in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed,53) For this perishable must put on the imperishable, and this mortal must put on immortality.
Those who have died at the time that Christ returns for the Church will have their bodies resurrected. Those who are alive at the time of the rapture will have their bodies changed in an instant from a body of corruption into a glorified body of incorruption.
1 Cor. 15:51 Behold, I tell you a mystery; we shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52) in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed,
Yet after Jesus' resurrection his body was changed...correct? it was flesh and blood yet changed. He showed Thomas that his body was still flesh and blood but was changed... How does that fit in with your version of changed if the thing that is changed yet remains the same? The dead will rise and they that are alive are changed... into what?
Yet after Jesus' resurrection his body was changed...correct? it was flesh and blood yet changed. He showed Thomas that his body was still flesh and blood but was changed... How does that fit in with your version of changed if the thing that is changed yet remains the same? The dead will rise and they that are alive are changed... into what?
Lady, it's not my version, it is the words that are written in the passages. The question you asked is already answered in the passage.
Lady, it's not my version, it is the words that are written in the passages. The question you asked is already answered in the passage.
So the body goes from corruptible to incorruptible right? So why then did Jesus return to heaven? Why not stick around in his incorruptible body and live forever? But no he returns to heaven where his incorruptible body came from. How does this work with the rapture? If Christ was changed after death and so it says that the dead will be changed... not so hard to understand but for those that are alive... how is it that they are changed and stay on earth.... but with the same bodies as those that are dead? It states that they shall not sleep, but does it imply that they do not physically die before the change?
1 Cor. 15:51 Behold, I tell you a mystery; we shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52) in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we shall be changed,53) For this perishable must put on the imperishable, and this mortal must put on immortality.
Mike...why areyou taking one verse, and summing up your interpretation on it when Paul explicitly said in the same chapter that the body is spiritual...and this spiritual is unseen?
Christ's spiritual body is described here:
1 Timothy 6:16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom [be] honour and power everlasting.
Is Jesus the True God? No, he was never divine. Is he a false god? No, he never claimed to be any god. He was a prophet.
You certianly are becoming more clear of your hatred of Jesus.
Not only did he claim it, Jesus claimed it more than once. The first time they had to think it, the second time they tried to stone him, the third time Jesus they tried to kill him, the fourth Jesus was tried and convicted ....and was crucified!
1. Mark 2:6-8
Now some teachers of the law were sitting there, thinking to themselves, "Why does this fellow talk like that?He's blaspheming!Who can forgive sins but God alone?"
2. John 10:33
"We are not stoning you for any of these," replied the Jews, "but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God."
3. John 5:18 For this reason the Jews tried all the harder to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.
4. Matthew 26:65 Then the high priest tore his clothes and said, "He has spokenblasphemy! Why do we need any more witnesses? Look, now you have heard the blasphemy.
Take a hint from those who were there "He has spokenblasphemy!"
Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj
Matthew 27:50 And Jesus cried out again with a loud voice, and yielded up His spirit.
Luke 23:46 Jesus called out with a loud voice, "Father, into your hands I commit my spirit." When he had said this, he breathed his last.
Mark 15:37 And Jesus uttered a loud cry, and breathed His last.
John 19:30 Therefore when Jesus had received the sour wine, He said, "It is finished!" And He bowed His head and gave up His spirit.
When Jesus said "It is finished" what did he mean? Regarding christians today, it seems they think nothing was finished. It was finished but his body still hung on the cross. What was finished?
The debt that was owed for your sins and the sins of everybody that ever have\will exist. Jesus' work of buying back the peace between God and human.
That peace can be rejected. Those who reject it will face an angry God
John 3:36
"but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God'swrathremainson him."
Mike...why areyou taking one verse, and summing up your interpretation on it when Paul explicitly said in the same chapter that the body is spiritual...and this spiritual is unseen?
Christ's spiritual body is described here:
1 Timothy 6:16 Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom [be] honour and power everlasting.
You certianly are becoming more clear of your hatred.
A clear statement does not convey hate. I have more respect for Jesus having done what he did as a human just like me and more respect for God as the ONLY God, when it was God who gave Jesus the POWER, It is clear Jesus did not possess the power of God on his own.
Quote:
Not onlu did he claim it, Jesus claimed it more than once. The first time they had to think it, the second time they tried to stone him, the third time Jesus they tried to kill him, the fourth Jesus was tried and convicted ....and was crucified!
1. Mark 2:6-8
Now some teachers of the law were sitting there, thinking to themselves, "Why does this fellow talk like that?He's blaspheming!Who can forgive sins but God alone?"
2. John 10:33
"We are not stoning you for any of these," replied the Jews, "but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God."
3. John 5:18 For this reason the Jews tried all the harder to kill him; not only was he breaking the Sabbath, but he was even calling God his own Father, making himself equal with God.
4. Matthew 26:65 Then the high priest tore his clothes and said, "He has spokenblasphemy! Why do we need any more witnesses? Look, now you have heard the blasphemy.
Take a hint from those who were there "He has spokenblasphemy!"
And yet you side with the pharisees on this one. THEY WERE BLIND!!! Jesus says it over and over... they could not see the message!!!! The message was not that Jesus is God. They were so focused on his supposed blasphemy that they could not see his message! He did not Blasphemy because he never state he was God... they took it as if he was saying he was God, but they were BLIND, finding any excuse not to get the message! And here you are believing them... are you blind?
They never expected God in human form... that is BLASPHEMY! God was never in Human form...they did not hear what Jesus was saying as you aren't hearing what Jesus is saying!
Quote:
The debt that was owed for your sins and the sins of everybody that ever have\will exist. Jesus' work of buying back the peace between God and human.
That peace can be rejected. Those who reject it will face an angry God
John 3:36
"but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God'swrathremainson him."
Turn Katjonji.....turn.
So again it comes down to the erroneous fact that you believe your God died for you so that you could become like God, and if you reject God's sacrifice of himself (which means you have power over God) then God's wrath (that God tried to abolish through Jesus/God) is still upon you as if God had never given God to save you from God's wrath...
Does that really make sense to you? Sounds like some weird circular argument. If Jesus is NOT God you have...
Jesus under God's great power was sinless and obeyed God in sacrificing his (Jesus') life so that God's wrath is satisfied in Jesus' death and we can all attain Jesus' state because he was human... If you refuse Jesus' death (peace) then God's wrath is on you.
Which makes more sense?
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So again it comes down to the erroneous fact that you believe your God died for you so that you could become like God, and if you reject God's sacrifice of himself (which means you have power over God) then God's wrath (that God tried to abolish through Jesus/God) is still upon you as if God had never given God to save you from God's wrath...
