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Old 09-21-2009, 06:44 AM
 
Location: RI
18,949 posts, read 8,798,458 times
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There is no doubt we all have testing and trying circumstances through our life , i think it is more fitting for the believer to proclaim and glorify the hand that delivers than dispute who is behind the testings and trying circumstances of life.


O Lord, how many are my foes!
How many rise up against me!
2Many are saying of me,
“God will not deliver him.” Selaha
3But you are a shield around me, O Lord;
you bestow glory on me and liftb up my head.
4To the Lord I cry aloud,
and he answers me from his holy hill. Selah
5I lie down and sleep;
I wake again, because the Lord sustains me.
6I will not fear the tens of thousands
drawn up against me on every side.
7Arise, O Lord!
Deliver me, O my God!
Strike all my enemies on the jaw;
break the teeth of the wicked.
8From the Lord comes deliverance.
May your blessing be on your people
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Old 09-21-2009, 06:46 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaniMae1 View Post
Okay sure why not. But it is a ridiculous notion. I'm sure there is some "greater good" coming out of the starving and suffering people in third world countries. I'm sure there is a "greater good" coming out of a parent watching their child suffer and die from luekemia.
Those are 2 good examples Dani. Of course there is a greater good in both those scenarios.

Like ChristyGrl said above, there are lessons we learn when we go through situations in life. Questions you might ask yourself:

What is the lesson to be learned if you are starving in Africa?
What is the lesson to be learned if you yourself are not starving, but you are aware of other people starving in Africa?
What is the lesson to be learned if you are dying of leukemia?
What is the lesson to be learned if your child is suffering and dies from leukemia?

As I have said before, if you view this life as all there is, and don't believe there is more after death, then you might not see what could possibly be the purpose of these situations.

But if there is a God and an afterlife, it makes perfect sense that God would be teaching people now in the physical what we must understand later in the spiritual. This physical life is very temporary, even though 60 or 80 years of suffering seems like a long time.
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Old 09-21-2009, 06:47 AM
 
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Originally Posted by pcamps View Post
There is no doubt we all have testing and trying circumstances through our life , i think it is more fitting for the believer to proclaim and glorify the hand that delivers than dispute who is behind the testings and trying circumstances of life.
Sure. But do you agree that God can work a greater purpose for all the testing and trying circumstances in our life?
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Old 09-21-2009, 06:49 AM
 
Location: RI
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I believe the trying of our faith worketh patience.
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Old 09-21-2009, 06:51 AM
 
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Originally Posted by legoman View Post
Can God cause a greater good to happen out of the bad things that happen in this world? And can this greater good even be for the person`s who benefit who the bad situation happened too, even if that person had died? Is this possible?

Yes, but your OP is worded differently and makes a different implication.
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Old 09-21-2009, 06:55 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Phazelwood View Post
Yes, but your OP is worded differently and makes a different implication.
Ok. So you don't believe God puts people in bad situations? (is that right?) But you believe when bad situations happen, God turns it to good.

Look at Joseph and his brothers. The brothers tried to kill Joseph and then ended up selling him as a slave. The brothers meant it for bad, yet God meant it for good. This tells me God meant for that situation to happen, and while it seemed bad for Joseph at the time, God was working it for good all the time.

This is how I think all bad situations in life work.
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Old 09-21-2009, 08:05 AM
 
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Originally Posted by legoman View Post
Ok. So you don't believe God puts people in bad situations? (is that right?) But you believe when bad situations happen, God turns it to good.

Look at Joseph and his brothers. The brothers tried to kill Joseph and then ended up selling him as a slave. The brothers meant it for bad, yet God meant it for good. This tells me God meant for that situation to happen, and while it seemed bad for Joseph at the time, God was working it for good all the time.

This is how I think all bad situations in life work.

When it is seen that this journey to perfection is the only way it can be then it takes on a different perspective.

I do not see God having meant for us to be in bad situation in a perspective of design, but from the perspective of what must be.

Let's put it this way, if we are lacking knowledge about butterflys and we see one struggling to get out, we can actually have compassion and rip open the cocoon to "free" the butterfly. We can honestly have the greatest love and compassion as we are helping the butterfly, but if we prematurely free the butterfly, we will in effect be killing it.

So, it's struggle must be.
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Old 09-21-2009, 08:16 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Phazelwood View Post
When it is seen that this journey to perfection is the only way it can be then it takes on a different perspective.

I do not see God having meant for us to be in bad situation in a perspective of design, but from the perspective of what must be.

Let's put it this way, if we are lacking knowledge about butterflys and we see one struggling to get out, we can actually have compassion and rip open the cocoon to "free" the butterfly. We can honestly have the greatest love and compassion as we are helping the butterfly, but if we prematurely free the butterfly, we will in effect be killing it.

So, it's struggle must be.
I agree 100%.

BTW the reason I started this thread is because many people look at situations in the Old Testament where God orders people to be killed, slaughtered, etc. and take this to mean that God is contradictory, un-loving, and therefore this is just another reason to not believe the rest of the scriptures.

Would it be fair to say that God ordering war is analagous to your butterfly struggling to be freed? It simply must be?
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Old 09-21-2009, 11:43 AM
 
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Originally Posted by legoman View Post
I agree 100%.

BTW the reason I started this thread is because many people look at situations in the Old Testament where God orders people to be killed, slaughtered, etc. and take this to mean that God is contradictory, un-loving, and therefore this is just another reason to not believe the rest of the scriptures.

Would it be fair to say that God ordering war is analagous to your butterfly struggling to be freed? It simply must be?
I honestly do not think the old testament language was intended to be taken as literally to the text as it is often asserted. I think doing so then causes us to justify Gods human characteristics rather than seeing the means by which we are becoming one with who he is.

For instance, it will be said that Adam and Eve were the very first literal humans, however scripture does not add up to that in the way the human race grew in number. Yet, these so called problems are not even an issue when the story represents mankind as a whole.

It is also just as reasonable to see that war and all the things that get painted as an evil God is simply the writers of the time taking literal events and making a parallel to what God does to us spiritually.

As long as we think we have to justify God allowing a child rape then there will always be a logic problem to deal with. When we see that our path of Gods expansion causes things that must be and cannot be any different no matter what Gods power is thought to be, then there is no problem.
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Old 09-21-2009, 12:08 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Phazelwood View Post
I honestly do not think the old testament language was intended to be taken as literally to the text as it is often asserted. I think doing so then causes us to justify Gods human characteristics rather than seeing the means by which we are becoming one with who he is.
If you can't take the OT literally then you can take the NT literally either.
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