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I've found that if you want accurate knowledge on any subject, it's generally best to go straight to the source, to the ones who have devoted their lives to the subject. Questions about the Rapture aren't any different; one is unlikely to find adequate information on a forum such as this. Rather than re-invent the wheel, I'll provide some links that more thoroughly answer the OP's question:
You might also seek a balanced view of ALL the different views, not just the pretribulationist one. I would do a google search on posttribulationism and midtribulationism also.
The key questions to ask concerning about the rapture are:
What does the Bible say is the purpose of the rapture for those who are alive when it occurs? For the dead?
What events does the Bible indicate must occur BEFORE the rapture occurs?
In what order does the Bible say the rapture will take place, respective to dead and living believers?
I'm in a hurry now, so I don't have time to post the Biblical references. But, if you want them to help you, I will be glad to supply them later.
Understanding the PURPOSE of the rapture is key to understanding when it happens. Use the Bible to create your own timeline. Read the New Testament carefully, and pick out chronological clues from it and place them on the timeline. When you are finished, you will know which interpretation of the Bible is the correct one. Last but not least, don't worry about it too much. It isn't necessary to your salvation to be right. On the other hand, what you believe about it might influence your spiritual preparedness to face unexpected events and perservere in your faith.
No I said two, not three. And no not because they did not die, but because this what the Bible, the Word of God teaches us. I cannot speak for others, but I can tell you if the rapture happens before I die, I'll be gone and I gave some verses to get you started. Done here.
Genesis 5:[SIZE=1]23[/SIZE]So all the days of Enoch were three hundred and sixty-five years. [SIZE=1]24[/SIZE]Enoch walked with God; and he was not, for God took him.
This verse does not say that Enoch didn't die. It is pure speculation on our part that he did not physically die. All is says is that God took him...and that leads me to believe he died.
[SIZE=1]2 Kings 2:11[/SIZE]As they were going along and talking, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire and horses of fire which separated the two of them. And Elijah went up by a whirlwind to heaven.
[SIZE=1]2 Chr 21:12[/SIZE]Then a letter came to him from Elijah the prophet saying, "Thus says the LORD God of your father David, 'Because you have not walked in the ways of Jehoshaphat your father and the ways of Asa king of Judah, [SIZE=1]13[/SIZE]but have walked in the way of the kings of Israel, and have caused Judah and the inhabitants of Jerusalem to play the harlot as the house of Ahab played the harlot, and you have also killed your brothers, your own family, who were better than you, [SIZE=1]14[/SIZE]behold, the LORD is going to strike your people, your sons, your wives and all your possessions with a great calamity;
This exact occurrence happens in the NT...where an apostle is taken to another place on earth, another location...not where God resides. Please keep in mind that OT Jews and their use of heaven and heavens is different from ours...this is where confusion can ensue when we try to place our meaning on it.
Jesus was pretty clear that no one had ever been to heaven except HIM:
John 3:[SIZE=1]13[/SIZE]"No one has ascended into heaven, but He who descended from heaven: the Son of Man.
The whole book of Revelation is directed at the first century audience, the seven churches....in the beginning and the end of the book...moving away from that relevance is pure speculation and assumption based on...nothing. Sorry...no rapture...nor resurrection in the 21st century.
Just physical death, and if you are saved, no second death.
The churches in the Book Of Revelation are spiritual churches. The hour of temptation that will come upon the whole world is the seven-year tribulation period. Jesus' Bride, which does not include many Christians, will be caught in the clouds with the Lord; they will escape death just like Enoch and Elijah. Jesus is coming for a glorious Bride; she will be without spot, wrinkle or any such thing -- and only the power of the Holy Ghost can get such things out of one's spirit. In addition to the scriptures that I have already provided, one should also study the ten-virgins parable to give more clarity on this issue.
The churches in the Book Of Revelation are spiritual churches. The hour of temptation that will come upon the whole world is the seven-year tribulation period. Jesus' Bride, which does not include many Christians, will be caught in the clouds with the Lord; they will escape death just like Enoch and Elijah. Jesus is coming for a glorious Bride; she will be without spot, wrinkle or any such thing -- and only the power of the Holy Ghost can get such things out of one's spirit. In addition to the scriptures that I have already provided, one should also study the ten-virgins parable to give more clarity on this issue.
And if you take the audience relevance out of the book and all that is written in (the NT) you can make it say whatever you want to. Please try reading it as it was written, keeping in mind who it was written to and who the events pertained to, and you will see there is no need for speculation...you will know exactly what occurred back in the first century.
I've found that if you want accurate knowledge on any subject, it's generally best to go straight to the source, to the ones who have devoted their lives to the subject. Questions about the Rapture aren't any different; one is unlikely to find adequate information on a forum such as this.
Rather than re-invent the wheel, I'll provide some links that more thoroughly answer the OP's question:
My question was not about the rapture coming. My question is where is it found in the bible that there are some who don't die the physical first death in the rapture even though Christ had to die.
How can one be raptured if they are not dead... where is the scripture that tells you that some will escape the calamity of a tribulation? Shouldn't be that hard to find, I would think.
You might also seek a balanced view of ALL the different views, not just the pretribulationist one. I would do a google search on posttribulationism and midtribulationism also.
The key questions to ask concerning about the rapture are:
What does the Bible say is the purpose of the rapture for those who are alive when it occurs? For the dead?
What events does the Bible indicate must occur BEFORE the rapture occurs?
In what order does the Bible say the rapture will take place, respective to dead and living believers?
I'm in a hurry now, so I don't have time to post the Biblical references. But, if you want them to help you, I will be glad to supply them later.
Understanding the PURPOSE of the rapture is key to understanding when it happens. Use the Bible to create your own timeline. Read the New Testament carefully, and pick out chronological clues from it and place them on the timeline. When you are finished, you will know which interpretation of the Bible is the correct one. Last but not least, don't worry about it too much. It isn't necessary to your salvation to be right. On the other hand, what you believe about it might influence your spiritual preparedness to face unexpected events and perservere in your faith.
Ok.. I certainly don't find "rapture" in the bible other than some ambiguous passages but that is not the debate. I asked where it shows that some will not die the first death, the physical one that is spoken of:
"It is appointed unto men once to die; but after this the judgment.” Hebrews 9:27
So are there some that escape physical death (rapture) and where is that found in the bible?
The churches in the Book Of Revelation are spiritual churches. The hour of temptation that will come upon the whole world is the seven-year tribulation period. Jesus' Bride, which does not include many Christians, will be caught in the clouds with the Lord; they will escape death just like Enoch and Elijah. Jesus is coming for a glorious Bride; she will be without spot, wrinkle or any such thing -- and only the power of the Holy Ghost can get such things out of one's spirit. In addition to the scriptures that I have already provided, one should also study the ten-virgins parable to give more clarity on this issue.
Again it is not the rapture I am denying. I am assuming it to be real. It is the scripture that confirms man can escape physical death. Enoch and Elijah are said to have been taken to be with the Lord. This doesn't say they didn't die. But let's assume they didn't die. Would there be a contradiction then? Or did Jesus proclaim that there is no physical death for a certain number of believers?
Enoch and Elijah did not die because God has a mission for them. I suspect they are the 2 Witnesses in the Revelation who will confront the AC and the FP during the 3.5 yrs of GT!
They have to return to earth in flesh and blood and near the end of the GT, they be killed personally by the AC. The prophecy says their dead bodies are left in the street of Jerusalem for 3.5 days... and will be resurrected!
Their resurrection is "the declaration of the 2 witnesses" of the momentous Feast of Trumpets... the prophesied "gathering of the saints"... the 1st Resurrection of God's people (Noah, Abraham, Moses, David, Apostles, Prophets, etc) and the Rapture of the living elect!
They will all rise up to meet JC in the sky for the "wedding" and will come down with him 10 days later to destroy the 200M nephilim army of the AC and to establish God's Kingdom on earth. They will rule the surviving humans for 1000 yrs!
Enoch and Elijah did not die because God has a mission for them. I suspect they are the 2 Witnesses in the Revelation who will confront the AC and the FP during the 3.5 yrs of GT!
They have to return to earth in flesh and blood and near the end of the GT, they be killed personally by the AC. The prophecy says their dead bodies are left in the street of Jerusalem for 3.5 days... and will be resurrected!
Their resurrection is "the declaration of the 2 witnesses" of the momentous Feast of Trumpets... the prophesied "gathering of the saints"... the 1st Resurrection of God's people (Noah, Abraham, Moses, David, Apostles, Prophets, etc) and the Rapture of the living elect!
They will all rise up to meet JC in the sky for the "wedding" and will come down with him 10 days later to destroy the 200M nephilim army of the AC and to establish God's Kingdom on earth. They will rule the surviving humans for 1000 yrs!
Enoch and Elijah did not die because God has a mission for them. I suspect they are the 2 Witnesses in the Revelation who will confront the AC and the FP during the 3.5 yrs of GT!
They have to return to earth in flesh and blood and near the end of the GT, they be killed personally by the AC. The prophecy says their dead bodies are left in the street of Jerusalem for 3.5 days... and will be resurrected!
Their resurrection is "the declaration of the 2 witnesses" of the momentous Feast of Trumpets... the prophesied "gathering of the saints"... the 1st Resurrection of God's people (Noah, Abraham, Moses, David, Apostles, Prophets, etc) and the Rapture of the living elect!
They will all rise up to meet JC in the sky for the "wedding" and will come down with him 10 days later to destroy the 200M nephilim army of the AC and to establish God's Kingdom on earth. They will rule the surviving humans for 1000 yrs!
You should get your facts straight before propounding such nonsense...Jesus told us himself, Elijah was sent 2,000 years ago.
Mal 4:5
"Behold, I am going to send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and terrible day of the LORD.
Mt 11:14
"And if you are willing to accept it, John himself is Elijah who was to come.
Mt 17:10 And His disciples asked Him, "Why then do the scribes say that Elijah must come first?"
11And He answered and said, "Elijah is coming and will restore all things; 12but I say to you that Elijah already came, and they did not recognize him, but did to him whatever they wished. So also the Son of Man is going to suffer at their hands." 13Then the disciples understood that He had spoken to them about John the Baptist.
Mk 9:10 They seized upon that statement, discussing with one another what rising from the dead meant.
11They asked Him, saying, "Why is it that the scribes say that Elijah must come first?" 12And He said to them, "Elijah does first come and restore all things. And yet how is it written of the Son of Man that He will suffer many things and be treated with contempt? 13"But I say to you that Elijah has indeed come, and they did to him whatever they wished, just as it is written of him."
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