U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 1.5 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Jump to a detailed profile or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Business Search - 14 Million verified businesses
Search for:  near: 
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 10-01-2009, 12:47 PM
 
3,067 posts, read 2,269,852 times
Reputation: 231
Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
And again you completely ignore the rest of my...
Oh it must be hell, to run into a guy who will not follow the whole script....LOL
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 10-01-2009, 12:55 PM
 
3,067 posts, read 2,269,852 times
Reputation: 231
so once again let me share with you guys how the call of Salvation and God's Grace saves us.

The grace of God is found in the action He took to send his only son to die and pay the price to Him for our sins.
Thus, the call to believe goes out to all who hear it, for the salvation offer is to all.
We then can say that the grace of God, (the cross) is Sufficient to save all men.
This is just like when my mom told me I could invite my whole Sunday school class to my birthday party.
Mom said that there is no need to worry, that she would make more than enough food and cake for everyone.

But that food is only actually eaten by the people that come to the party.
Question, what did the kids get that did not attend the party?
ANSWER ; , Nothing.

The same is true with the offer of salvation that goes to all me in God's Grace.
It is Sufficient to save all me, but only Efficient to save in the lives of they who turn, repent and believe in Him...

This is why the Bible tells us that God wants to save "all men"
and that God seeks all that are lost, and that God wants to save all mankind from hell.
He does, and the cross is the means this is done.

The cross is sufficient to save all men
and efficient in the hearts of they who believe.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-01-2009, 04:41 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
6,805 posts, read 4,573,974 times
Reputation: 495
Quote:
Originally Posted by alanMolstad View Post
Oh it must be hell, to run into a guy who will not follow the whole script....LOL
There is no script to follow. You are like the guy that won't let anyone else's words get into HIS head but expects everyone to listen to him.

Interruption or verbal overlap is a sign of the a non-interactive communication style. This communication style can also be recognized by sudden changes of subject or bullying/name-calling, or complete avoidance of the subject matter/person communicating.

Nancy Tye-Murray wrote a book on the foundations of Aural Rehabilitation and in it she says, "A noninteractive conversational style often yields unfavorable consequences." (Foundations of Aural Rehabilitation ... - Google Books)

The unfavorable consequences arise when the communication/conversation stops progressing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by alanMolstad View Post
so once again let me share with you guys how the call of Salvation and God's Grace saves us.

The grace of God is found in the action He took to send his only son to die and pay the price to Him for our sins.
Thus, the call to believe goes out to all who hear it, for the salvation offer is to all.
We then can say that the grace of God, (the cross) is Sufficient to save all men.
This is just like when my mom told me I could invite my whole Sunday school class to my birthday party.
Mom said that there is no need to worry, that she would make more than enough food and cake for everyone.

But that food is only actually eaten by the people that come to the party.
Question, what did the kids get that did not attend the party?
ANSWER ; , Nothing.

The same is true with the offer of salvation that goes to all me in God's Grace.
It is Sufficient to save all me, but only Efficient to save in the lives of they who turn, repent and believe in Him...

This is why the Bible tells us that God wants to save "all men"
and that God seeks all that are lost, and that God wants to save all mankind from hell.
He does, and the cross is the means this is done.

The cross is sufficient to save all men
and efficient in the hearts of they who believe.
efficient: (Webster's)
  1. Acting directly to produce an effect: an efficient cause. See Synonyms at effective.
    1. Acting or producing effectively with a minimum of waste, expense, or unnecessary effort.
    2. Exhibiting a high ratio of output to input.
I don't think this is the word you are looking for.

Regardless, this would be work or effort, salvation isn't achieved through works or effort.

People always say that you have to put effort into your salvation. If salvation is through works then what is the purpose of the Gospel? To tell us the same thing the Law did... a new set of laws to follow?
Isaiah 42:
"I, the LORD, have called you in righteousness;
I will take hold of your hand.
I will keep you and will make you
to be a covenant for the people
and a light for the Gentiles, 7 to open eyes that are blind,
to free captives from prison
and to release from the dungeon those who sit in darkness.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-03-2009, 11:45 PM
 
Location: The Chatterdome in La La Land, CaliFUNia
37,703 posts, read 11,508,201 times
Reputation: 33984
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaltonG View Post
Thank you for your response Mike and I agree about Rev. 3:20 not being about salvation but in regards to repentance rather. Would you agree that the only faith that saves is a working faith (James 2:14-26) and hence is a living faith?
Salvation is through grace and not by works. Doing good works is a response to our gift of salvation. In order to receive salvation, one must repent (turn from) of his/her sins, believe in their heart that Jesus is the Son of God who died for our sins and to confess that belief with your mouth.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-04-2009, 07:19 AM
 
3,067 posts, read 2,269,852 times
Reputation: 231
Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post


efficient: (Webster's)
  1. Acting directly to produce an effect: an efficient cause. See Synonyms at effective.
    1. Acting or producing effectively with a minimum of waste, expense, or unnecessary effort.
    2. Exhibiting a high ratio of output to input.
I don't think this is the word you are looking for.
Actually, the Webster's understanding is just right on the spot...

The Grace of God is sufficient to save all mankind.
And is efficient( see meaning above) in the lives of they who turn to him and seek His forgiveness.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-04-2009, 08:03 AM
 
Location: Small Town USA
1,376 posts, read 1,360,085 times
Reputation: 555
"If my people, who are called by my name, will humble
themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked
ways, then will I hear from heaven and will forgive their sin
and will heal their land. Now my eyes will be open and my ears
attentive to the prayers offered in this place."
2 Chronicles 7:14-15


Intercessory Prayer by Dutch Sheets is an amazing learning tool to understand how Our prayers can move God.

God does look for people to "standing in the Gap".

Prayer is also speaking God's word with authority and faith over people and situations.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-04-2009, 08:22 AM
 
Location: The Netherlands
8,532 posts, read 10,217,311 times
Reputation: 1538
Originally Posted by alanMolstad
Quote:
So it works out like this:
To all the whole world God has sent his son to die for their sins.
This means that the blood of Christ is "sufficient" to save all the billions and billions of people on the earth.
This also means that the same blood of Christ is "efficient" in the salvation of men who have placed their faith in him.
So did Jesus die for all of humanity or did he only die for those who believe in him?

Quote:
So the Grace of God is sufficient to save all mankind
and the Grace of God is efficient at causing that salvation in the hearts of all they who turn to Him and believe....
The problem here is that you confuse a gift with a trade.
A gift (given freely out of love) is a gift with no strings attached.
A trade occures when you have to accept a certain condition in order to receive the gift, so it isn't really a gift at all.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-04-2009, 08:37 AM
 
3,067 posts, read 2,269,852 times
Reputation: 231
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tricky D View Post
So did Jesus die for all of humanity or did he only die for those who believe in him?.
For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
– John 3:16 (KJV)

The blood of Christ is "sufficient" to wash away the sins of all mankind, and "efficient" at doing so in "whosoever" believes in Him

Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-04-2009, 08:44 AM
 
3,067 posts, read 2,269,852 times
Reputation: 231
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tricky D View Post
The problem here is that you confuse a gift with...
A gift is a gift when it is both given and "received".

Unless you receive it into your heart, "When you believe" it is just an offer.

But God has spoken and given his word that whosoever asks will receive.

They whosoever believes in Him, the same will be saved.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 10-04-2009, 08:51 AM
 
Location: The Netherlands
8,532 posts, read 10,217,311 times
Reputation: 1538
Originally Posted by alanMolstad
Quote:
The blood of Christ is "sufficient" to wash away the sins of all mankind, and "efficient" at doing so in "whosoever" believes in Him
So do you still have to believe in Him in order for the Blood of Christ to wash away the sins of all of mankind or not?
I mean a gunshot wound is "sufficient" to kill me but it does not necessarily mean that it will.
Or are you simply saying that God's grace is not a gift?

Quote:
A gift is a gift when it is both given and "received".
Uhm no, a gift is only a gift when the giver doesn't expect anything in return.
If you only 'give' gifts to get gifts in return then you're not truly a giving person at all.

Last edited by Tricky D; 10-04-2009 at 08:59 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $84,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:36 PM.

2005-2014, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25 - Top